[Rejected] IB m3 Gromril Plating

[Karast]

special:
-you have a toughness tactic which stack (or should) with kobs toughness aura for all party member
- passive ap regen for all group on tactic

The tactic your talking about simply makes the ST buff AoE off of your oath-friend. It does not make it a tactic type buff, so it does not stack with knight aura, just like the ST buff doesn't stack.

The passive AP tactic is not regen, it is a flat value on crit with a built in cool down on the proc.

No IB buffs stack with Knight buffs, with the exception of the 10% crit on ancestors fury, which stacks with the dirty tricks tactic.

Knights, and the stacking buff nerf really killed IB usefulness on live until we got the outgoing heal debuff, and then most IB went 2h for the knock down. If you wanted to be a tanky or utility focused tank, most groups would prefer double knight over knight / IB depending on what dps you ran. It was really only having the on demand knock down / outgoing heal debuff that let 2h IB's shine a bit in 6v6 and melee trains. But even then 2h knights had their own advantages in the wounds debuff, and having access to the super punt.

[Tesq]

-the crit stack,
-the parry buff is unique and will always work as no melee have a parry skill buff
-the armor buff is better than potion and unique and could be even better if armor potion will get change in future
-the ap be a flat value dosen't mean much of negative to me ,
-even if tough buff dosen't stack......you're knight have 1 aura more to use instead.


instead ICD for ap may sound bad how much is that?

all of this it's in the same build and can be used both s/b and 2h. It dosen't really feel in much of a buff.

[hogun]

Plzzzzz Tesq !!

IB is a very good MONO buffer, he don't have vocation to be a group buffer, if you whant to buff some one in your groupe , switch fast your oath friend ability or play KOTB with 2 key game play if you can't

Tesq the templet you present don't really exist ! and if you play a IB shield or 2H with the same temple you dont understand IB game play.

In the live warhammer for a long time, Gromril plating ( M3) was a groupe Buff and it was nerf because it was a very strong moral !

chosen and kotb are the best opti tank in this game , but IB dont need up

The most important thing to me is to keep the big difference between the classes, each one bringing rich but different game solutions, we all know players who happen to have made the best of their class by making them very useful because it Have understood the mechanics and they managed to highlight it, it is in my opinion a mistake to up this or that class think it is the solution for a better integration in the balance of the game.

[Toldavf]

Hmmm i would be against this proposal. As i recall the morale was first nerfed due to bubble stacking. Almost every group will have access to at least 2 large melee absorb bubble from their healers so what i think we need to ask is do parties need more absorb then this?

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

Plzzzzz Tesq !!

IB is a very good MONO buffer, he don't have vocation to be a group buffer, if you whant to buff some one in your groupe , switch fast your oath friend ability or play KOTB with 2 key game play if you can't

Tesq the templet you present don't really exist ! and if you play a IB shield or 2H with the same temple you dont understand IB game play.

In the live warhammer for a long time, Gromril plating ( M3) was a groupe Buff and it was nerf because it was a very strong moral !

chosen and kotb are the best opti tank in this game , but IB dont need up

The most important thing to me is to keep the big difference between the classes, each one bringing rich but different game solutions, we all know players who happen to have made the best of their class by making them very useful because it Have understood the mechanics and they managed to highlight it, it is in my opinion a mistake to up this or that class think it is the solution for a better integration in the balance of the game.

what is then a good set up for utility? since we are discussing the role of single buffer i show you one build that can reach all of unique and not redundency buff a IB can use. And since there is nothing forcing you go even more in mid path or spent something over a 2h build when you can still KD with s+b + IB have the best damage reduction skill/tactic in game , totally passive you do not need to spec def a lot. You also share the armor buff and the parry buff with the oathfriend

-1200 + armor
-25%parry
-toughness auras as KOBS
-1 free kobs aura more then to use
-10% crit (which make ap tactic proc easier...and stack with SW/kobs crit tactics)
-g-ap tactic
-15% dmg reduction proc on block
-punishing blow( chosen touch of palsy mirror)
-absorb vs magic damages
-aoe snare
-core 10 se CD long punt

you ST utility feel not that bad and also dosen't your durability since that magic absorb will stack with kobs resistenece aura, moreover with guard you have a permanent 15% dmg reduction togheter with a 25% buff to parry and can use hold the line if needed too since nothing force you go 2h. On top of this you also have offensive capacity due to crit buff and chosen touch of palsy mirror...........lol

[GodlessCrom]

The build you posted will not give 1200+ armor through the armor buff. My 2h IB solo roams with grumble n mutter, and my armor is buffed by 940 through the attack. Unless you meant a combo of armor tactic and armor buff, but that only applies to the IB himself.

Also worth noting that maintaining all these buffs requires use of grudge, and more importantly, use of gcds. If you want to maintain 25 parry, 10 crit and magic absorb, that's 3 gcds every 10 seconds, and 60 grudge. Granted grudge is easy to build and runic shield builds it quick, but still. All that to build buffs on yourself and one other player. It's clearly inferior to the no effort, no gcd cost auras of knight/chosen, and even inferior to the aoe attack proc buffs/debuffs of blorc and sm.

[Tesq]

The build you posted will not give 1200+ armor through the armor buff. My 2h IB solo roams with grumble n mutter, and my armor is buffed by 940 through the attack. Unless you meant a combo of armor tactic and armor buff, but that only applies to the IB himself.

Also worth noting that maintaining all these buffs requires use of grudge, and more importantly, use of gcds. If you want to maintain 25 parry, 10 crit and magic absorb, that's 3 gcds every 10 seconds, and 60 grudge. Granted grudge is easy to build and runic shield builds it quick, but still. All that to build buffs on yourself and one other player. It's clearly inferior to the no effort, no gcd cost auras of knight/chosen, and even inferior to the aoe attack proc buffs/debuffs of blorc and sm.

no i used the rr 100 value instead my bad, it's something like 900+ on both you and your oathfriend, btw what you should use GCD then for? 10 seconds are 20 GCD if you use 3gcd lol you have plenty of time for the rest.
BG is even in a worst situation than this and chosen/kobs also use some gcd to buff themself and or offensive support / use interrupt(kobs) etc; they all have their active stuff to use too, as said you have also passive stuff like

-dmg reduction
-ap regen tactic

anyway the matter of balance between chosen/kobs (passive buffer tank) vs IB/BG (active tanks ) it's another matter and should not be used here.

[GodlessCrom]

...there are not 20 global cooldowns available in 10 seconds. Isn't each gcd 1.4 seconds? Or am I wrong?

Anyways, the point is you said IB buff mechanic is strong. It's demonstrably less strong than other tanks buffing mechanics. If the mods say this isn't the topic then so be it, but you brought it up.

I'm not saying IB is a weak tank. I do very well on my 2h IB and its are more fun than my chosen. But the buffing mechanic is clearly the weakest part of the class in group play. It's awesome for solo or duo play though, which is mostly what I do.

[Penril]

There are not 20 GCDs in 10s.

[Tesq]

There are not 20 GCDs in 10s.

was not suppose to be 1gcd 0,5 sec? (After skill animation i mean), anyway you have more stuff to do it mean you have more tools also; now i dont thisnk the CD economy be so much worst on IB compared to all other tanks, since you pretty much have an aoe snare which save GCD ; i could understand compared to BO GCD economy from that view but not compared to chosen, there are moment where i have all in CD so my free GCD cannot be used and all chosen CC have an high CD which is not the same for exemple for the BO. So ye i could understand if you compare it to a BO but not to a chosen.