[Withdrawn] Redirected Force and Crushing Advance swap + KB

[peterthepan3]

THOUGHTS


I think giving the Swordmaster a long KB as a 13pt ability would be perfectly acceptable:

- If you are going that far into Vaul, you are doing so with the intent of being a tanky tank. Therefore a basic spec would include the following components (you can remove a tactic or both, but it is still 30-32 points invested: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... ;;0:0:0:0:.

- If you go that far, you can not take Ether Dance or Whispering Winds. At best you can get Khaine's GWM, but without some points in Hoeth to increase your spirit resist debuffs - and without ED - your DPS is severely gimped when compared to a traditional Khaine/Hoeth 2h. My point is that you will not really be an effective DPS tank if you choose to get the KB, especially in today's min-max meta: you would be better off choosing an IB, or a Khaine/Hoeth SM.

- Will give the SM a definitive (or two) defensive turtle build (I'm thinking http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... ;;0:0:0:0: or http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... ;;0:0:0:0:). More variety is always a good thing.

- If the armor component were to be removed, it wouldn't be that big a deal as you could get Aethyric Armor as you'll have more than enough points left over. Also bear in mind possibility that armor pots could be nerfed/removed in the future = Aethryic Armor given more importance.


tldr - i approve.

[Rebuke]

I agree with giving them a long distance punt, however I'm not sure I agree with the way to implement it. Ideally, if they opt for better CC/Utility they should lose some DPS.

1) Redirected Force at 14 points:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... 0:;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... 4:;0:0:0:0:

In Khaine/Vaul, the SM keeps a very strong Stat steal and all his DPS tactics; he only loses Ether Dance. Yes, ED is pretty good, but the SM will still do very good damage while keeping a ST punt, AoE punt and a ST KD.

In Vaul/Hoeth, his spirit debuff reaches ridiculous levels (stacking WoH + HB) giving him good sustained damage, while keeping the CC I mentioned above AND Whispering Winds.

One way I can see to circumvent the SM having too much damage and a superpunt, would be to tie a shield restriction to the ability. Since it would be on top of the defensive mastery tree, it would somewhat make sense. This way, it would defeat the Vaul/Khaine spec altogether (Khaine's ability require 2H) and the sustain damage of a SnB Vaul/Hoeth SM, although decent, isn't over the top at all. This way SM could really chose damage or utility.

As a side note in favor of tying a shield restriction on superpunt, soon-ish, people will have 1 more mastery point than a typical 40/70 had due to the Merc/anni point bonus. So a RR70 SM could potentially have 30 mastery points to spend instead of 29. Making this spec (+balance accuracy or Crashing Waves with the xtra point from gear) a possibility : waronlinebuilder.org - Sword Master build

This 100%

Also people have to understand that by going into vaul you severely lower your dps potential already, be it 2H or SnB. Also agree with superpunt requiring a shield.

[Morf]

SM damage is higher then dps classes apart from slayers, you can see this in every caledor woods with competitive groups, giving them a st long punt in the current state of the game means you can basically run 2 healer 4 dps groups as you no longer need the kotbs/ib for punting a tank away from the dps/healer they are guarding.

I was once behind giving sm (and blorc) a st punt but i feel this would further increase the difference between destruction damage and order damage in the games current state if SM damage is not nerfed aswell.

This change is something i believe should be revisited when we have all armor sets available so you can see how SM damage is looking with players in top tier armor.

[Azarael]

This point has already been raised and countered by suggesting linking the punt to Crushing Advance instead. Another alternative is for Redirected Force to only gain the effect when used with a shield.

[Toldavf]

Currently i believe this proposal scarifies game balance to achieve internal balance for the SM class this i belive is the wrong way to approach any balance issue. SM is already an exceedingly strong tank and part of every good premade because of the raw damage it can provide.

The changes you suggest will do nothing to improve the sword masters place within the premade they already pip the iron breaker for the spot of 2nd tank comfortably. In small scale we all know that the long punt is a brilliant and vital tool, however what about other aspects of the game?

You're actually going to harm its ability to absorb damage considerably. By messing with its tanking tree you are harming it in solo, warband scale bombing (where the amount a tank can mitigate is really important) and even pve instances.

[Tesq]

none KB change would be acceptable, we have done some 2vs 2 premade some days ago in black fire pass and the burst of rdps is insane compared to some time ago, supèr punt should be rather remvoed from chosen/kobs rather than give to SM which anyway alredy enforce the wp+kobs thx to stat steal and CD decrease.
Add a Punt to SM would just make sm+kobs even better. Considering the guard range reduction even snare is a soft treat to guard now. I could accept if both SM/BO would have a medium st KB while chosen/kobs get the short edge and ib/BG the best but any KD chnge should be balanced with all tank togheter and CD should be bind to the lengh of the knock back, until these rules do not get set in stone in the same way that work for CC (x sec per duration)-->(x sec CD per every inch of lenght) no kd changes should be made.

[Ninepaces]

I actually think that only 1 tank class on each realm should have acess to long range punts. And i would use BG and IB for those and scrap the tactics for kotbs/chosen

^this

SM is already the clear 2nd tank for order, and now this proposition intends to further take one of the IB roles. Same with BO/BG relationship.

[Azarael]

I withdraw the proposal.