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Stat/Armor potions

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
pojoman61
Posts: 20

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#101 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Yeah i guess i forgot to say that single target buffs would still not stack with each other. the only thing that would change is that single target buff could stack with pots.

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Kolkuth
Posts: 99

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#102 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:23 am

I've been reading and I shared those ideas with guild mates in order to get their opinion/thoughts.
Here a few ideas we had when discussing (which could be combined with other ideas in this thread):
  • We are talking about reworking potions, so why aren't we talking about resist potions? Since only few people are using them, maybe we should find a solution. This proposal is a bit different from what OP wants, but it may have an impact on the choice of armor potions instead of resist ones. It would even have an impact on the choice of a Chosen/KotBS in each 6-man group: their op resist aura buff would be replaced by pots.
    • Those 3 resist pots could be merged in 1 single pot with same resist values (lowered if needed)
    • Keep 3 different pots: For example, spirit one would give a strong spirit buff, and a lower corpo/elem buff
  • We agree with the idea of replacing armor pots buff by -lowered- physical damage reduction buff, even if I don't know how to solve impact on WH/WE skills. Would it be possible to do the same for stats potion? It could add -lowered- Ability Damage/Healing buffs (or auto attack damage, armor pen, etc.), instead of strength/willpo/intell buffs.
    • It would solve influence on specs and nerf potions influence (lowering stats like strength/willpo/etc.
  • What do you guys think of replacing the system 1 "defense" pot + 1 "stat" pot by 2 pots whatever their type is? If a second pot of the same type is used, its buff could be lowered to 50% (or not lowered at all if all pots buff are already lowered). This would have a significant impact on potions being used, players would have to make a choice between def or off pots.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#103 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:00 am

Change the potion from stats to damages increase or decrease would just make the situation of wounds bar worst since this way damages dealers which had significally less thing to take from renown would benefit from a damages increase + stll have str/int/bal capped --> this would just being a bland buff to damages accross the gam, off dd and def tank would exit stronger making wounds bar even more elastic on dd itself and healers or make more relevant classes that have armor buff that will replace the old effect.


The problem this tread is trying to solve is not correct, potion are right; buff values in game are not.

Potions are the solutuin to class difference especially armor/resistence
For exemple you play with chosem and shammy; how do you increase armor?



So the problem here are not potion themself but rather the value of the skills across the game; if these value would be correct then the tank and healer classes would been more swapable each other.

Zeal/sh/am/rune stat value are too low compared to aura this make more relevant have chosen+ bo if the meta favour magic damages.

Single Resistence potion should all be replaced and the 3 resistences potion from lotd introduced into the game and his value buffed.

Alternatively every resitence tactic on each race should be granted for free . And resistence potion left single resistence.

Armor pot values are correct 660 is exatly half the value of the tanks self armor buff so is ok as blank g-buff
A zeal/rune overwrite this anyway with 1k and 10% less armor pen.

Considering even this then the zealot/rune res debuff should be inferior to shammy/am and they should be on par with chosen/kobs.
The potion are also casual friendly because most buff in game overwtite them they allow you to pick whatevere class you want and cover the weakness of the inferior party set up. So potions just allow you a different party comp. Where from exemple you take 1 tank and 3 rdps. Because they allow you acces to eff which you wouldn't have otherwise.
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Oldschool
Posts: 49

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#104 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:13 am

Spoiler:
Why we Need to have this potions?
Why we have to push our Stats so much? Is this makes the gameplay?
No.
Its just helping the People who are in a "helpfull" guild sharing potions and Talismans and left outside the People who are not in a guild and want to Play just for themself on a easy way together with others without having alot of toons and own potions Talisman manufactury...
I never understand why we Need potions. If iam going to die in a fight I dont Need a potion, I just have to take it like it is. If iam thinking I Need more armor, I just have to Play a Tank and maybe not a healer....
I would recommend to make this gameplay easier for everybody and not Support the gameplay of Pros and 24hours 7 day Players or guilds.

I vote for:
Solution 1
Remove stat/armor potions from the game.

Make this game easay for everybody!!!! To enjoy it! Log in, have fun in RvR and not Need to farm PVE spots for Talisman or potions stuff.....this is WARhammer not FARMhammer.....

Just my 2Cent.

And another Thing I like to recommend:
-Give more Renown for RvR!!! Ist not compare to SCs (timewise), and I guess we should lift the RvR more up.
-Is it possible to lift up the HP per Wound? So maybe it would increase the gameplay if we all have more HPs? For longer and intense fighting? Just a Idea.

Most of this post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, making his suggestion just a mere vote. Both go against the rules - Penril.

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#105 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:03 am

Wouldn't it be possible to change change armor potions to to reduced armor penetration instead of increasing armor. Green potion 5% and blue 7% for example. Add a max lvl requirement for them (so lvl 40s cant use lvl 5 potions) and increase the amount of armor penetration you get from weaponskill acordingly. This would stop masking abillities that gives armor but increased vallues from weaponskill would keep it in check so TTK wouldn't be very altered. Same thing can be done with main stat potions. Change Strength potions to Melee Power etz (no skills in the game can boost these stats) and boost the effect of toughness mitigration by the same amount.
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Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#106 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:33 am

I think anybody mentioned it as of yet but if you nerf the stat potions a wider destribution of intelligence/ballistic skill buffs would be appriciated. There are plenty of strength buffs within the game (kotbs/chosen auras, bg/ib buffs, zealot/rp buffs) however afaik only the zealot/rp buff provides int/bal in a reliable way (not counting sm/bo procs).

Dabbart
Posts: 2248

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#107 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:53 am

saupreusse wrote:I agree that the system has its flaws, and a lot of potions mask a lot of abilities in a way that they become obsolete.
And i have an additional suggestion: Make all stat/armor potions increase the characters attributes not by a fixed amount, but use a percental value for the calulation: this way, a SW cant get as much strength out of it as a choppa, or a DOK cant get as much armor as a tank.
11 pages in, I think the best was still on the front page.

Creating a resistance pot that was entirely worthwhile has the exact some issue that armor pots have. It makes a whole bunch of abilities and tactics obsolete, and increases the amount of defensive stacking. Albeit, of a different kind. I would however love to have resis pots that functioned similar to a single Piece of the Winds Impervious set to choose from.

Any sort of direct stacking with a pot fails to answer the problem that armor stacking presents in the first place. Allowing a system of "Defensive Power" for armor similar to melee/magic/heal or with a % bonus instead is nice compromise. However, the basic issue of redundant abilities/tactics will rear it's head again when every 2nd dok/WP runs their armor aura.

It would be nice to have a system in place for armor pots, that even slightly takes into account the general vision for how particular classes are going to be handled going forward. Namely; Chosen, Knight, WP, DoK. Rp/Z/AM/Sham buffs are all removable via hostiles, so for this particular argument are ignored. Any bonus that is provided simply by being in range/consumable, that are entirely untargetable, with 100% uptime, requiring 0 GCD usage is the fundamental issue imo. This is not the thread to discuss them, or the particulars of any changes to them, but this would be a good place to think about it. Removing potions entirely places a greater emphasis on these, whereas allowing them to stack in a non-linear fashion, or on a % basis instead of a flat increase might be a good precedent going forward.

I would support the entire removal of pots from PvP however. It would be nice to try and add greater area's for individual skill and awareness to shine through, and actually having a wide range of group/ST buffs that where all worth your precious GCDs, not to mention tactics and combinations couldn't help but lead to this...
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)
Secrets wrote: Kindly adjust your attitude to actually help the community and do not impose your will on it. You aren't as powerful as you think.

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#108 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:04 pm

Why not go the tried and tested way of other MMOs and let potions disappear after death

Also I'm very much for the reduction in the stats they give. I'm fine with potions, but it is ridiculous that, while our current top armor is annihilator, potions can give as much of your main stat as 2 whole pieces of armor. If we were well into Warlord/Sov armor, the numbers would be fine, but shouldn't they be scaled for the level of gear we have? Because the level of gear we have also determines the opposite stat. I.e. a strength potion gives significantly more damage to a mdps than the enemy can ever possibly migitate through the available armor.

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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Stat/Armor potions

Post#109 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:11 pm

2 weeks. Locking for now.

dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [Pending Final Review] Stat/Armor potions

Post#110 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Review results:

Proposal rejected.

Reasoning: Not right now. Other stuff has higher priority, but in the future we may have a debate on percentage based buffs so that we don't see "light armor tank mages"
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