3. Slotting the Hastened Dismissal tactic (aka the Chosen "super" punt) simply nets the Chosen the base punt of a KotBS and nothing more. Yes, it's good to have for Tor Anroc SC and for some Guard removal duties, but there are several better tactics a Chosen can run that, if you are the only chosen in your group, it's best to leave the punts to others.
Untrue.
Base Repel and base Repel Darkness are power 600 angle 50 punts.
Boosted Repel Darkness is a lowgrav angle 70 power 600 range extension 120 punt.
Boosted Repel is a lowgrav angle 72 power 600 range extension 120 punt.
Luuca wrote:1. The Chosen Base Punt is so weak it's not even worth using unless you can punt them the 20 feet off a cliff to their deaths. A base Chosen Punt will not move a tank out of guard range. The KotBS "Super Punt", on the other hand, requires the Knight to get FAA clearance and NASA approval each time they use it.
2. The immunity to punt is so prevalent due to (as stated before) PuGs handing out free immunity because they can press a button that unless you are in an organized 6-man vs 6-man SC, you usually can't punt the SoB you need to when you need to.
3. Slotting the Hastened Dismissal tactic (aka the Chosen "super" punt) simply nets the Chosen the base punt of a KotBS and nothing more. Yes, it's good to have for Tor Anroc SC and for some Guard removal duties, but there are several better tactics a Chosen can run that, if you are the only chosen in your group, it's best to leave the punts to others.
If you are going to change the cooldown of the punt based upon the distance the punt sends the target, the Chosen base punt should not have a cooldown at all. I've seen people lag jump further than my base punt sends players.
All in all, i like the idea, but don't go thinking that Chosen have a great Punt and it makes them a great tank. It's just not the case. Chosen have many other abilities and tactics that make them a great tank but their punt is extremely weak and slotting a tactic to get another classes base punt is just as worthless.
Make the cooldowns of KB and Immunity based upon distance is fine. It will not, in any way, nerf the Chosen. It will be a hinderance to KotBS and it will be a benefit to the other tanks IMO.
If you really want to help all the tanks, make it so a target of a Punt that is Knocked Down cannot block, Dodge, or Parry a punt. This happens so many times that it's just sad. They are knocked down FFS, defenseless...
The knight punt without a tactic is equally as useless as the chosen.
I dont think he meant to write Knight, I think he meant BG/IB? I read that too and took it as he miss-spoke?
I dont dislike Tesq's proposal, but I do have to say, being an NA player with 150 ping 24/7 really bites when it comes to this type of stuff. Punt was always fun to use, but I could NEVER use it reliably.. I would run behind a target and try to punt them behind my teams lines, just to then watch them fly back into their own group... It really bites because this is one, if not the only, way to counter guard.
@Luuca, I feel along the lines that you do. Heck, many times I dont even use hastened dismissal because as I just said, its too unreliable. I rarely even use the base punt because of the immunity and it doesnt even do anything...
Also, manytimes an IDEAL target to punt has been handed a fatty immunity timer from some PUG...
so @ Tesq, I know this is a big deal in premade SC play - which is what this seems to be targeting... I just think that we are missing the boat a little in terms of fixing some other issues here?
We all agree BG is the worst. Your solution here is to make the BGs "punt" by comparison to the Knight/Chosen stronger. I dont think this will really change their desirability - especially with the unreliability of punt.
I do think making "hastened dismissal" a 2H only tactic for Chosen/Knight fixes SOME of this as now its not a "1 chosen fits all" type of thing... Or even with Knights, know that the 2H build brings 10% crit. I think it adds flavor to the Chosen/Knight tanks.
I think you can THEN buff the BG and IBs punts by reducing the CD, or doing something OTHER than just nerfing other punts.
Also @DEVs, is there any possible way to make punt more lag friendly? I think its a server side check right now but just is BRUTAL when you constantly can never aim someone due to ping issues...
I am curious, what other tactics would you run in place of the super punt for a chosen since it is the only way to guarentee a kill in close fought scenarios with strong premades on either side.
After having a look at the tactics available, what better group focused tactics are there?
Even in the "apply crippling strikes" or "destined for victory" there is still space to slot it.
Gerv wrote:I am curious, what other tactics would you run in place of the super punt for a chosen since it is the only way to guarentee a kill in close fought scenarios with strong premades on either side.
After having a look at the tactics available, what better group focused tactics are there?
Even in the "apply crippling strikes" or "destined for victory" there is still space to slot it.
Depends what you are running but AP tactics are very good as well.
If you are running a 2H build, youll need Crip Strikes and the 15% crit tactic. Along with toughness and then you have 1 open for whatever you want. I often switch between AP or Super Punt, however because I am NA player Super Punt only works about half the time. The other half, it punts them into a wall, or the wrong direction, etc.
This is also why I think making Hastened Dismissal a 2H only tactic would help balance this out a bit. You can run SNB with DFV or you can run 2H and get a super punt, but you give up some tankiness to do so.
@thegate my aim are hardly aim to fix premades vs premades, i look into classes as they are,
1-the chosen/kobs base punt is a ****
2-the tactic make it better than BG/IB due:
a)10 cd vs 20 sec cd
b) due most of terrain in war being upright plain)(?), the angle and the time the tank stay mid air
3-the chosen/kobs enter in a field of competence that from my vision of tanks that should be primary of IB/BG if they want to do the same stuff then the price is a tactic, but in no way they should be able to do better
Gerv wrote:I am curious, what other tactics would you run in place of the super punt for a chosen since it is the only way to guarentee a kill in close fought scenarios with strong premades on either side.
After having a look at the tactics available, what better group focused tactics are there?
Even in the "apply crippling strikes" or "destined for victory" there is still space to slot it.
Rugged 160 Toughness (allows Chosen to stack STR to actually Hit Players and have abilities like Quake not be Parried + DPS)
Destined for Victory (200 Morale per block every 3 seconds - Best Morale Pump in game)
Mixed Defenses (+25% Parry for 5 seconds on Block AKA Always at 50%+ Parry for guard damage and MDPS)
Power From the Gods (+5 ap per aura per second - 15 AP per second passive)
Dire Shielding (100 spirit damage per "hit" from all party members for 17 seconds - useful against funnel/bomb groups)
Quickened Discord ( 10 sec CD on Blast Wave - 75 point wound debuff for 20 seconds + damage AND 10 sec CD on Touch of Palsy)
@th3gatekeeper - great point about NA Ping and server side checks on Punt. I hadn't even considered this as a cause. I just assumed my punt will not work as I need it to. I still use the basic punt and slot Hastened Dismissal in Tor Anroc, but hardly ever in other SCs or ORvR.
This is rather than a class fix a broad change to provide tanks a better spot into the party based on their utility role
The main problem with tank KB and CD it's that kobs/chosen have a tactic which make irrellevant one of the best feature of IB/BG rendering these 2 tank obsolete.
why is a issue?
The status of the BG is well know and even if the IB is not so bad and have spot in some set up this could be greatly be improved by set rule that put in line the spam nature of the chosen/kobs tactic and also give a chance to the other tank to be in pair with 1 thing at least.
A) due the nature of the chosen/kobs tactic that lower the CD and also increase the length and so be in this way ,too much advantageous negating other 2 classes main feature.
B) there is no proportionality dividing the 3 archtype of tanks KB into the game by lengh and CD
my proposal it's to make the CD of KBs scale with the lenght which would results in something like
in what this should translate in the tanks set up?
chosen/kobs--> they would have a 5sec CD as core but when the tactic is slotted it dosne't matter what the tactic says when 1 KB is increased in lenght then it get the propper CD which mean in case of these tactics 15 sec.
BO--->similar to above these classes would have acces to a base 5 sec CD with a tactic that would make the st KB medium but with a 10 sec of CD. In the case of ya missed me the CD would still remain 20 sec Because it would also give and additional effect other than KB the target away.
IB/BG---> these 2 would have a core 15 sec of CD
PRO
-the first big change it's that if chosen/kobs want to do what bg/IB does then they must suffer form the same CD and not be able to spam better than these 2 tanks what these tanks offer as one of their best feature. Dosen't matter if they sue a tactic that have a different logic in the costruction of the class.
-the spamable nature for a KD of the lower chosen/KOBS core KB would be countered by have for every KB the same immunity actually making the better lengh KB more desirable.
CONTR
-sm lack a basic acces to a ST medium KB like the BO and would be unaffected by these changes.
why the 5 sec per bracket?
-the base it's that ib/bg KB would share teh same CD because even if the BG one is better it suffer from have a conditional and further increase the CD would had been negative rather than good for the classdue to chosen have acces to a super punt with the tactic.
-the main inequality were between the core KBs: chosen/kobs have 20 sec for a Short KB while IB/BG had 20 for a better version, this is rather disadvantageous for chosen/kobs that do not want to spec that tactic and it evolve instead in a worst case scenario when their disadvantage became a pure advatage when the tactic after had increased the lenght also reduces the CD to 10 sec beat the IB/BG Knock back.
conseguences:
-This would make the choice between core KB and tactic KB a choice of gameplay rather than mandatory and it would be balanced due give the same immunity timer.
-In simple terms this is a nerf of 5 sec CD to the chosen/kobs super punt and a buff of 5 sec to the IB/BG super punt
One thing feels wrong and maybe I misunderstand the proposal, but unless IB punt is buffed to be higher/longer, giving it a 15s CD would be a nerf to the class as Away With Ya has a core CD of 10s right now, not 20s as you seem to be thinking. Arguably, it is also more of a medium punt than a superpunt, but that's perception. Maybe Aza could post the value of IB/BG punt like he did for kotbs/chosen to compare. Finally, it also has a drawback : it costs grudge. Although in the middle of a fight IB generally have some to spare, it has the disadvantage of not being available when a fight starts to gain the initiative or a tactical advantage, like kotbs/chosen can (although BG have same problem).
That being said, although your idea would be a good change in itself (for BG at least), the fact that BG/IB would have the same CD as knight/chosen would change nothing in their desirability in groups. IB has already the same KB cd as knight. Yet knight is always favored and run the superpunt tactic simply because it is much much better than the IB's medium punt.
Hence, unless a punt clearly superior to chosen/knight's is offered to BG/IB (or super punt tactic is nerfed/removed), this change would not alter the current gameplay balance. It would somewhat harmonize some CD among 1 archetype, but that's about it.
Farfadet, RR72 shaman Volgograd, RR80 IB
Video thread here.
Even if core punt is weak I think players would just focus using a 5 cd core punt rather then using other useful attack abilities against multiple enemy targets.
Several tanks spamming core punt in gameplay ,that might get rather sloppy in RVR ,for sure in SC's.
The core punt might be more useful then super punt when its all said and done.
I think its bad for IB/BG given optional super punt . Chosens/Kotbs should now get super knockdown like the IB/BG ?
Should Chosen/kotbs single target damage be on par with IB/BG ,or Sm/BO ? I don't think so.
Increase range aoe punt tactic for SM /BO might be a cool though.
7rere7 wrote:Even if core punt is weak I think players would just focus using a 5 cd core punt rather then using other useful attack abilities against multiple enemy targets.
Several tanks spamming core punt in gameplay ,that might get rather sloppy in RVR ,for sure in SC's.
The core punt might be more useful then super punt when its all said and done.
The power of punts, or more specifically super punts is being able to knock targets away from guard range, all other punts 80% of the time more or less just give out immunities
I think its bad for IB/BG given optional super punt . Chosens/Kotbs should now get super knockdown like the IB/BG ?
Should Chosen/kotbs single target damage be on par with IB/BG ,or Sm/BO ? I don't think so.
Iron breakers KD is a 10s CD, 3s duration KD that requires block
BG is a 5S at max resource on a 20s CD and requires block
Neither are "super knockdown's" and neither are all that impressive in the grand scheme of things, espically in BG's case when you consider that about all the utility the class bring to the group.
IB/BG's dmg is nowhere close to SM/BO's and even if KOTBS/ Chosen dont have their DPS output they are still by far the strongest group tanks in their respective factions and have always been main stays in groups, they are both far to strong with their auras
Increase range aoe punt tactic for SM /BO might be a cool though.
Both of them are extreamly strong go to off tanks and their AoE punts are situationally strong, and their AoE punts dont need buffs and BO has big brawlin for CC
