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[Rejected] Blackguard path of Malice

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#21 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:04 pm

Bozzax wrote:If BoR ability is made stronger surly the realm un mirrored crit buff Ancestor's Fury buff is the logic choice (skip the strength buff though)?

Most other crit buffs/debuffs are mirrored except this spamable IB outgoing crit/healcrit buff. So a 5% version mebbe?
Spoiler:
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1. Same 5pts spot
2. Both costs resources not AP
3. Not spamable as IB and with reqs
4. Realms get mirrored buffs/debuffs, more or less
Ancestor's Fury
Costs 15 Grudge
Requires 5 points in Path of Vengeance (equivalent to Malice)

The memory of your ancestors bolsters your resolve, increasing Strength by 75 and chance to critically hit by 10% for 10 seconds. Your Oath Friend is affected as well if they're within 50 feet of you.
Would make BGs op as hell and the no 1 tank but well well no one seem to mind this. ;)

(Also would require client patches)
Make it require great weapon then

It would give Bg access to some more group utlity and solidify bgs role as an offensively oriented tank
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#22 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:31 pm

well IB can be used mostly in s/B there is nothing that force you into 2h, maybe bg could be the opposite but a 10% crit buff is really necessary? i mean on order side it make sense classes have no selfish natural crit. But for mara/we/choppa that's quite the opposite, every one of these classes have a crit or damage crit tactic which their counter part have no acces to.
If you really want to rewamp blade of ruin so be it but do something in line with the bg stuff or something that make it redundancy with other 2 tanks on destru so that he can be swapped easier for one of those.
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Shammeh
Posts: 5

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#23 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:38 pm

I like suggestion, though I wonder about the bg adding 20% crit to an ally with both combined CD and BoR might be too much. Alternatively what if BoR worked like a reverse shield of sigmar? Adding to the dmg a target takes each time he is hit by a small amount for 10 secs, say 50 or so. Would this be enough to encourage focus fire and bg usage?

Aldo one if the major complaints about CD is how it it's group cleanable. I agree that cd is an okay ability, maybe even "fair", but I think it needs to be more than fair to be taken over all the other choices and to encourage bgs to be taken at all. Having the ability cost all to instead of hate and build extra hare for you will get the bg into a position to do his debuff in job faster and more efficiently. I also propose that cd be changed to damaging so as not to be cleansed. Those changes would make bg a much more viable choice as a debuffing tank, I believe.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#24 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:59 pm

Tesq wrote:But for mara/we/choppa that's quite the opposite, every one of these classes have a crit or damage crit tactic which their counter part have no acces to.
WE == WH for the others AA evens it out I'd guess
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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zumos2
Posts: 432

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#25 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:01 pm

Black guard already giving a very nice crit buff it makes very little sense adding even more crit chance increases. Also Ancestor's Fury is quite a **** skill as the damage you gain from using a gcd does generally not weigh up against the damage you would do when using a damaging attack (at least for dps/2H IB).
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: The Unlikely Plan - Deep and Dry - Dark Omen

Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#26 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:09 pm

Giving BGs an equivalent to Ancestor's Fury will probably never happen, considering devs have been trying to reduce crit stacking for a while (just look at KotBS and SW). If there is a consensus that BoR needs a buff, I suggest you guys think of something else.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#27 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:19 pm

Bozzax wrote:
Tesq wrote:But for mara/we/choppa that's quite the opposite, every one of these classes have a crit or damage crit tactic which their counter part have no acces to.
WE == WH for the others AA evens it out I'd guess

what you mean? sy i didn't undertood that
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Shammeh
Posts: 5

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#28 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:34 pm

Penril wrote:Giving BGs an equivalent to Ancestor's Fury will probably never happen, considering devs have been trying to reduce crit stacking for a while (just look at KotBS and SW). If there is a consensus that BoR needs a buff, I suggest you guys think of something else.

I agree that adding more crit to the bg is not the way to go, it feels uninspired and redundant, as well as against the bgs existing theme of being a debuff tank rather than a buffing tank. Thanks to everyone's responses I believe my proposed rework for BoR would do little to improve the skill or class, since all it would change would be the way the dmg BoR did was applied.

Having considered it further I would certainly like to see the ability be a consistant debuff, one that would be usefull to a party and make a bg a more attractive choice then he currently is, while still keeping in theme. With that in mind I have a few ideas as for what that debuff might do. Let me know which aspects, or combinations of aspects, you think might be more viable than others.

In no particular order my ideas for a reworked BoR
1.As I stated before, a reverse sigmars shield, a debuff that would proc additional dmg every time the target suffered an attack, something like guarenteed flames of ruin proc for a duration.
2.A debuff that when the debuffed target is struck (either by the bg or his group) ap is returned to the person striking the target over time. Or perhaps when the bg strikes the target it restores ap to his group
3.A debuff that causes the target to suffer dmg every time an ability is used (like We and Wh) openings. There are tanks on each side with similar movement debuffs to the We/Wh openings, why not the other debuff? While not adding to the group dynamics it does help his role as a very annoying healer debuffer without stacking more actual healing debuffing.
4.A silence requiring a great weapon. Not something I would like to see so low in a tree, it would probably have to be moved up, but the fact remains that a bg trades his only hard cc to use a twohander, so perhaps this would help their viability?
5.A DoT with a cooldown that escalates in dmg, like the engi and magus pools. Has a long duration (say 20 secs)and starts off slow but builds to actually hit hard per tick by the end. This would help facilitate burst dmg with preplanning and start off as a low cleanse priority while becoming a much larger threat later on. I like this idea alot as while the bg is a debuffer BoR has historically been his only real DoT besides his snare.

Just throwing some ideas out there for discussion.

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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Blackguard path of Malice

Post#29 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:34 pm

Time to lock this thread, 2 weeks have passed.

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