[Rejected] Blackguard path of Malice

[Shammeh]

Hello, I've been playing my blackguard for the last 2 weeks as I leveled as malice, and while enjoyable enough in pve I have some major issues with the tree which I believe could be addressed without changing the nature of class.

So here are my issues,
#1) An inconsisten theme.
As anyone can tell the Malice trees primary function seems to be damage output with a twohander. It has an ability requiring a twohander, and all of the bgs hardest hitting abilities, including its aoe, single target class mechanic dump and single target direct damage ability are in this tree. Why then, does the first ability in the tree require a defensive proc in order to be used? Don't get me wrong, I like blade of ruin and it's dmg might be too high without a proc, but it's very strange to me that the dps tree needs to parry to dot someone. If you take blade of ruin, you are practically required to either take the parry tactic, the parry ability from another tree, or use a shield.

#2)Lackluster signiture skill
Crimson death is really underwhelming. I don't have an issue with it not adding to your chance to crit, I'm fine with making other people's dmg better, my issue is how similar it is in use to monstrous rending, the spamable aoe. They both cost the same amount and CD hits a little harder with an added cooldown and 5s debuff. For an ability so far into the tree, requiring a twohander that MR does not, it is very easy to pass on.

So basically I take issue with those two skills the most. A defensive proc dot in a dps tree and a twohander skill not worth taking a twohander for. So here are my proposed changes for each.

#1) More offensive Blade of Ruin. There are many ways this could be implemented, either by removing the defense requirement or changing how the skill works. If Blade of ruin kept it's cost and CD and instead added damage to your next 4 attacks adding up to the roughly the same amount as it does now, that would encourage offensive usage.

#2)More usefull Crimson death. If CD kept it's cool down and debuff, but instead of hate cost ap, while generating additional hate for each opponent hit I think bg might actually consider using it. This combined with enraged beating would reinforce the trees theme of hate generation by hitting rather than being hit.

Downsides:I think the Blade of ruin changes proposed are very lateral, I don't think anyone is complaining about BoR dmg at the moment being op and this would just make it more consistent. Adding hate generation to cd would make a class with a spamable aoe have an addition aoe for fuel, though since the dmg, cool down, and debuff would remain the same dmg output shouldn't really change. Who knows someone might even use it!

[Penril]

Moving to Discussions. Keep in mind CD does not add anyone's chance to crit; it debuffs your enemies chance to BE crit, so the BG also benefits from it. Its duration also got increased to 10s. Therefore, in this thread people should stick to discussing:

- Blade of Ruin: added damage to your next 4 attacks adding up to the roughly the same amount as it does now.
- Crimson Death: Reduced Hatred cost / change to AP cost.

[TenTonHammer]

I feel that CD is now in a decent spot atm with its "100% uptime"

The problem with blade of ruin is that for an ability that has a pre set requirement to use it, in this case parry, its affect is quite lackluster and no one ever got it


The effect of the ablity which is just a slow ticking DoT is completely lack luster and is currently a waste of a mastery point irregardless of what every "pressure" you might be able to apply with it

I find the idea of a Reworking BoR into a mini version of tantrum and functioning as a damage amp quite intresting though i dont know if MOAR mamage is what BG needs atm

Jaycub made a suggestion a while back that i found quite interesting, turn BoR into an ability that oh hit drains morale

the reason i hesitated making that suggestion though is that; i havent been as active latly and the impact of morale gain has been changed so i dont know how effective it would be now with the current morale gain rates furthermore BG can now have access to 45% parry rate with tactic and renown so it would be a lot easier to proc BoR now

And lastly a buff to BoR as is would also be a buff to SnB BG with a GW requirement

[Bozzax]

1. It is the hardest hitting dot in the game (after change to 8s). Guard something and it has 98,9% availability. Changing it to 4x ON_HIT would buff proc meta and make BG AOE spam op.

2. Changing CD to AP is a nerf to BG

Try this
1. Guard something
2. Parry something
3. Blade of Ruin
4. Crimson Death
5. Enraged Beating

Use tactics: Thirst For Death, Filled With Fury, Anger Drives Me, some other tactic you like

[Tesq]

CD:
the cost of the skills is right the problem of bg lies in a very bad def tactics hate condition that do not allow bg to get most of his def meccnic up with out loose utility or viceversa use utility and loose in durability. This trade off whcih only bg suffer from is what the most bad can a tank suffer in the game. But it need to be andressed i middle path tactics not here.

exemple: loose to much hate lower way too much the parry.

so the problem linked to the hate cost is not proper, is not CD but rather the hate mangement is inconsistent because is forced by bad optimized parry tactic and toughness tactic.

Also the theme for the 2h mastery is aoe debuff, wounds debuff can be apply with 2h aoe spam and crit debuff require 2h;
the only inconsistency regarding bg CD is the duraiton fo the buff which due the cross mirror with kobs and most of buff value should not be 10 sec duration but 15 or 20 sec duration, since is active vs kobs passive and require, hit and can also be cleanse.
Also the duration of CD is currently 10 second not 5 as the tooltip said , it was alredy buffed up

[Morf]

Bg is in a good place after the changes to path of loathing, no need to touch BG at the moment (if ever).

[zabis]

Some people don't use the loathing path though, they like to go Malice/Anguish spec

[Morf]

Some people don't use the loathing path though, they like to go Malice/Anguish spec

And Malice/anguish spec is in a good place, only loathing was lacking with skills being in an unrealistic place, now the useful stuff has been moved down you have a fair few options to choose from.

[Gachimuchi]

1. It is the hardest hitting dot in the game (after change to 8s). Guard something and it has 98,9% availability. Changing it to 4x ON_HIT would buff proc meta and make BG AOE spam op.

Or just change to damage enemy four times.

I don't get this 'BG is fine' meme. If so then why is the class playing second banana 100% of the time to Chosen/Blorc even after the changes? The changes definitley are a step in the right direction but they aren't enough. It just gives them access to CC in a spec that doesn't turn them into a CC bot. Elevating from status of horribly bad to mediocre. It doesn't bring unique buffs like IB does, just unique debuffs. Choking fury and CD are the two big things it has, and they aren't worth losing Chosen auras or Blorc snare that isn't gcleanseable, statsteal and other utility they bring.

[zabis]

Some people don't use the loathing path though, they like to go Malice/Anguish spec

And Malice/anguish spec is in a good place, only loathing was lacking with skills being in an unrealistic place, now the useful stuff has been moved down you have a fair few options to choose from.

The issue is with Blade of Ruin though, this is a skill that should be addressed based on it's utter uselessness. I personally like the "Adds X damage to your next Y attacks", but with the parry requirement dropped and possibly a buff to it's damage output, otherwise it would essentially be the same skill