[Rejected] Blackguard path of Malice

[Penril]

The issue is with Blade of Ruin though

Correct. Everyone needs to stick to discussing BoR/CD, regardless of how viable the other trees are. If someone thinks these skills are fine or need some kind of change, post valid arguments.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

1. It is the hardest hitting dot in the game (after change to 8s). Guard something and it has 98,9% availability. Changing it to 4x ON_HIT would buff proc meta and make BG AOE spam op.

Or just change to damage enemy four times.

I don't get this 'BG is fine' meme. If so then why is the class playing second banana 100% of the time to Chosen/Blorc even after the changes? The changes definitley are a step in the right direction but they aren't enough. It just gives them access to CC in a spec that doesn't turn them into a CC bot. Elevating from status of horribly bad to mediocre. It doesn't bring unique buffs like IB does, just unique debuffs. Choking fury and CD are the two big things it has, and they aren't worth losing Chosen auras or Blorc snare that isn't gcleanseable, statsteal and other utility they bring.

I have a second balance proposal for BG ready (which i cannot post for a a forum bug ) which is linked to their durability because in term of aoe/g utility they are fine, also 2h bg bring

-10% block/parry debuff on 9 target
-10% crit debuff on 9 target
-best aoe wounds debuff in game (better than chosen) on 9 target

2h bg is fine other skills require attention which are all st or tactics and so on other path.

Main issues for BG are currently def meccanic /hate management .

-if you consider the 1rst path a 2h path then, it's pretty good right know with what you can do and to all things you have acces with 2h, if we want consider it x se and offensive path then anyway CD is alredy buffed and works fine , also as stated from aza 10% value are the good value for more stuff utility in game, add an additional effect to the skill would make it over the top per se let's say.

-BoR alredy gone throught a buff, unless you change completly the skill and so you say that the burst that skill give you is not good or optimal for the class and so invoke a total rewamp of the skill then it the best dot x sec in the game and can be used even while s+b.

[Morf]

Correct. Everyone needs to stick to discussing BoR/CD, regardless of how viable the other trees are. If someone thinks these skills are fine or need some kind of change, post valid arguments.

Ok, CD - aoe very high damaging skill (1k aoe crits are not uncommon as a dps tank which also has high def values)and increases opponents chance to be crit by 10%, its an amazing skill and doesnt warrant a buff at all even if the cost of using it is high, you will always have enough hate to use it off cd in group fights.

BoR - very high damage dot especially on a tank class and has near 100% uptime, requiring block/parry is a non factor as a tank will always be parrying/blocking guard damage.

I dont see a problem here, i play a bg and they are very solid after the changes to loathing.

[Bozzax]

The issue is with Blade of Ruin though

Correct. Everyone needs to stick to discussing BoR/CD, regardless of how viable the other trees are. If someone thinks these skills are fine or need some kind of change, post valid arguments.

5-6 casual SCs



BoR 8% for 1 GCD /10s (well I guard so 99,9% uptime)
CD 14% AOE for 1 GCD /10s
EB 10,5% for 1,5s channel /8s

Not to shabby for an utterly worthless ability that is never up

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

The issue is with Blade of Ruin though

Correct. Everyone needs to stick to discussing BoR/CD, regardless of how viable the other trees are. If someone thinks these skills are fine or need some kind of change, post valid arguments.

5-6 casual SCs

BoR 8% for 1 GCD /10s (well I guard so 99,9% uptime)
CD 14% AOE for 1 GCD /10s
EB 10,5% for 1,5s channel /8s

Not to shabby for an utterly worthless ability that is never up

Such screenshot and statistic say absolutely nothing. Maybe you would have done a lot more damage if you didn't use Blade of Ruin. Maybe you would have made more kills by ignoring the skill? I can easily see you didn't do optimal damage from that chart.

In general Crimson Death is in a great spot atm, especially after nerfing crit chance in general, the crit chance increase only became more valuable. Blade of Ruin is still quite **** and many times not even worth using. One suggestion I could think of is increasing its cooldown to 20 seconds and make it a strong DoT which deals it's damage over 5 seconds. Then Blade of Ruin + Crimson Death + Enraged Beating gives you a little bit more burst. I would keep the parry requirement so you actually have to look when you can do the burst combo and can't just spam it. In that sense also a bit longer cooldown. It would also be pretty OK with shield using Pitless strike instead of Crimson Death (and probably after casted after Enraged Beating).

[Bozzax]

Show us then something that is more value then 1140 over 8s, 1gcd thanks (outside of EB or CD). Or something that creates higher burst then BOR, CD, EB on a debuff target.

[TenTonHammer]

Again

Over 8 seconds, steady ticking dmg dosnt kill people it's just fluff dps which for a skill with a pre require is not worth it, spike damage kills people in this game

People arnt going to give up access to elite training/soul killer/unending fury just for a dot


That's why no one ever bothers specing it

[Shammeh]

One of the reasons I brought up the parry/block requirement for BOR is that it limits the people who want to use a skill from the 2 handed tree to having to take defensive tactics from another tree to work consistently. What if you want to put your off points into getting mind killer or immunity to detaunt? Don't take BOR or cd? Why should I have to go halfway up another tree, have someone else around to guard, and sacrifice a tactic slot for a dot? It's not like its a cc or something, it's just some okay dmg.

As for the 4 extra hits making aoe too strong, can't the extra hits just be consumed 1 for each target hit? If you hit more than 4 targets all the charges are gone and it only hits 4 at random. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Tesq]

One of the reasons I brought up the parry/block requirement for BOR is that it limits the people who want to use a skill from the 2 handed tree to having to take defensive tactics from another tree to work consistently. What if you want to put your off points into getting mind killer or immunity to detaunt? Don't take BOR or cd? Why should I have to go halfway up another tree, have someone else around to guard, and sacrifice a tactic slot for a dot? It's not like its a cc or something, it's just some okay dmg.

As for the 4 extra hits making aoe too strong, can't the extra hits just be consumed 1 for each target hit? If you hit more than 4 targets all the charges are gone and it only hits 4 at random. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

that's a problem linked to have a dot on the mastery (what original dev were thought when they made the BG..)

their position is usually as core skill for that mastery, that's why alot of ppl always wanted a rewamp of the skill, should be changed in my opinion either in:
- aoe heal debuff give some redundancy with chosen one
- 2h out of target debuff which copy and paste debuff from 1 target onto other targets in x feets

because the concept of have a need to spec dot is not that good. Some ppl will argument about the offensive spec you can do with that and the channeling but im not into that spec much and i can't really argument about it.

[Bozzax]

If all agree BoR ability needs to be stronger surly the realm un mirrored crit buff Ancestor's Fury buff is the logic choice, minus the strength buff ofc?

Most other crit buffs/debuffs are mirrored (more or less) except this spamable IB outgoing crit/healcrit buff. So a 5-10% version mebbe to sort of make up for Mara > WH having 5% more incoming.

Spoiler:

1. Same 5pts spot ability
2. Both costs resources not AP
3. Not spamable as IBs (10s CD) and with parry/block
4. Realms get mirrored buffs/debuffs, more or less

Ancestor's Fury
Costs 15 Grudge
Requires 5 points in Path of Vengeance (equivalent to Malice)

The memory of your ancestors bolsters your resolve, increasing Strength by 75 and chance to critically hit by 10% for 10 seconds. Your Oath Friend is affected as well if they're within 50 feet of you.

Would make BGs op as hell and the no 1 tank but well well no one seem to mind this.

(Also would require client patches)