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[AM/Sham] AP Drain

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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Ugle
Posts: 589

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#101 » Fri May 26, 2017 7:21 am

There is a reason AP drain is a core ability. As a healing shammie you are heavily reliant on the additional AP feed because of your rather high AP costs. Yes also in ab.ex mode. If you say its not then your group is not properly under pressure or your second healer is carrying you.
You need to pick your targets carefully in this disrupt-stacking environment. To hide with other ailments you need to spend more AP. Casting on tanks and healers results in a disrupt at least 50% of the attemts. It Ap drain trolling is mostly a problem in 1v1, 2v2 sitations or as footpatrol states in exotic group comps with other weaknesses. Updating it to 3 sec drain is probably the least bad update though not an optimal one. Please no kneejerk reaction nerf to make the skill totally useless ;)
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Valfaros
Posts: 258

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#102 » Fri May 26, 2017 9:34 am

Ugle wrote:There is a reason AP drain is a core ability. As a healing shammie you are heavily reliant on the additional AP feed because of your rather high AP costs. Yes also in ab.ex mode. If you say its not then your group is not properly under pressure or your second healer is carrying you.
You need to pick your targets carefully in this disrupt-stacking environment. To hide with other ailments you need to spend more AP. Casting on tanks and healers results in a disrupt at least 50% of the attemts. It Ap drain trolling is mostly a problem in 1v1, 2v2 sitations or as footpatrol states in exotic group comps with other weaknesses. Updating it to 3 sec drain is probably the least bad update though not an optimal one. Please no kneejerk reaction nerf to make the skill totally useless ;)
Spoiler:
The skill wokred like that before and I also think going back to this should be enough for now. Atm it just nullifies your ap reg which is just a bad thing. The 3s window atleast gives you the chance to do something before your ap are gone again.
This point has been made before and odes not need to be made again as it will refuel previous arguments that have already been posted and discussed and countered over the last 10 pages.
Gerv.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#103 » Tue May 30, 2017 3:42 pm

AP drain works as CC, delayed CC, delayed stun.
like BW/Sorc delayed spike.
when u use it on the focused target in assist train, it works as disarm/silence ignoring CC immunity.
here is how it works as delayed CC.
3sec KD, AP drain hide in a lot of debuffs, get up, use 1 or 2 skills, then chain disabled by AP drain.
it's not extream theorycraft. it works.

i'll pass discussion about cleans, AP regen which is already debunked.
issue is you can use it as disarm/silence ignoring immunity.

alternative solution : combine all OP solutions plus longer CD.
3sec tick - it reduces skills CC element. OP said you can't drain if there is no AP left. it will work as weakness of this powerful skill.
drain 90, restore 180 - it remains as AP regen for AM/sha, still best among AP drain skills.
actually, this value need to be looked at. it's AP morale's value.
longer CD - it might be too harsh if skill's affected by CC immunity. just make it same level of other stun skills. 20sec.
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Ugle
Posts: 589

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#104 » Tue May 30, 2017 3:53 pm

Playing as a healer you will get disrupted by any competent healer or tank in a group perspective. Only enemy dps that is permahealed, ap fed and guarded remains as valid targets.
Playing as a dps sham/am there is a different preset, it is more of an offensive tool.

As a healer, outside 1v1 or 2v2 wich game is not balanced around, ap drain is already balanced through ap cost, target aquisition and cd.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#105 » Tue May 30, 2017 6:28 pm

Spoiler:
Since I keep reading cleanse isn't a counter for ap drain does that mean clns isn't accepted as a counter vs bw/sorc rotations either?
Would be neat with some clarification on this
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#106 » Tue May 30, 2017 6:41 pm

bw /sorc dot rotation dont prevent you to cleanse , it keep hit you till you die or save yourself.

AP drain may end by diable you, make you unable to cleanse a BW/sorc rotatton as much silence does. (which is the point of the thread ap drain happen to work as a silence/disarm preventing you to use yoru class as a form of CC exept it have no immunity).

Also bw/sorc dots it's plural it mean that alredy remove a part of the dots wont kill you.
Not remove 1 single ap drain keep buried over time or 2x ap drain may prevent you for far more than cleanse.

Additonal you can **** about bw/sorc rotation if either guard /def enough or heal enough by other source ap dran MUST be cleanse and cannot be a priority cleanse (exemple taunt directly coutner mara pull )or intercepted like dmg for guard.
AP drain dont have any form of drain reduction (ap + is too hard to stack from gear which is not the same for resistences) is either in or out as the chance to disrupt proc or not.....

considering max disrupt is 18 from renow and am/SH striketrhought are 20 % there is no solid in-build itiemized defense or effect reduction. (Such overcap + 400 corporeal resistence against bw-->which can be achived both from gear + talismans which is not the case here -> A] cuz ap + is never gave more freely as instead are resistence on jewerly /belt/back , B] there are no ap talismans).

-ap drain disable you preventing not only do action for yourself but for other as well
-bw/sorc rotation do not prevent you to perform action even if you die you can still perform action on others and you are not disable in any way (cough couch rkd......)
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Gerv
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Posts: 811

Re: Am/sham ap drain

Post#107 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:16 pm

2 weeks are up, class is over, thanks for a energized discussion, locking.
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Boyd - WP - O.S.

dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [AM/Sham] AP Drain

Post#108 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:17 pm

Many changes and reversions to AP drain since this proposal was introduced. Rejecting.
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