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[Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#11 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:40 pm

Acidic wrote:
dansari wrote:
Acidic wrote:Lack of the utility of the Assault stance - interrupt is utility
Whole gameplay of the Assault stance consists of spamming Grim Slash, Brutal Assault and reapplying dots. - this is due to your play style of finding a rotation, by definition this is rinse repeat adding another skill to your rotation changes nothing.
I can bet that there are SWs who have never known that such skill even exists - really ? This means you want improvement because players can't read the skill set
This ability has a long cooldown (20 sec) and nowhere close to be spammable - it is an interrupt , it is situational and not meant to be spammable
lowest damage comparing to other skills - yes utility means less damage
I personally could not glean a justification for change from the reasoning above.
OP is arguing that there could be more utility within Assault stance, and no, two abilities is not a rotation. OP is also arguing that other interrupt skills are better by being undefendable or adding buffs/debuffs.
yes he talks about more utility in assult but why change this skill that has some utility ?
there could be more of anything, this is not an argumet , this is I want more plz.
other interupts may well be better with other classes, but 1:1 skill mirroring is not what the game is about, he has not justified a gap in the needs for assult and assult sw are not in a bad spot even according to sw in other threads.
If you want to look at this skill from the side of utility then it is underperforming as utility skill. As I stated, it has very low use due to be: 1) Melee and limited to one stance; 2) Defendable (Try to interrupt Choppa's Furious Choppin' through 45%+ parry) 3) Long cooldown.
So it is underperforming as utility skill. And 50 AP drain with 20 sec cooldown with previously stated downsides is very okay for me (AM and Shamans can drain your full bar non-stop but it's their super card and I'm asking for much less).
Last edited by daniilpb on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lefze
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#12 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:41 pm

Acidic wrote: yes he talks about more utility in assult but why change this skill that has some utility ?
there could be more of anything, this is not an argumet , this is I want more plz.
other interupts may well be better with other classes, but 1:1 skill mirroring is not what the game is about, he has not justified a gap in the needs for assult and assult sw are not in a bad spot even according to sw in other threads.
Actually the first thing that popped to my mind when I read the thread was that this is another thread about changing sub-par stuff only for the sake of changing it, not because the class is lacking. And while the class overall has flaws, assault is in a good spot even though the argument of counterplay being possible by the very best premades on the server has been pulled before.

But still, I can't argue against the skill being highly unattractive and the rotation of the stance in itself being boring. When you look at the overall playstyle though, the in and out of range playstyle is solid, but the second you get into drawn out melee fights it becomes exactly like OP described. And changing counterstrike would be a nice step towards better gameplay in these fights, not necessarily by giving it more power, as shifting power from elsewhere in the kit onto it would also work.
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Arena
Posts: 165

Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#13 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:19 am

I have an ability that i use only to interrupt spell casting. If i could have one more with no damage and only interruption effect - i wouldn't complained about it.

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#14 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:38 am

Several ranged attacks can be used in Assault Stance with AS benefits. Its not really limited to spamming GS and BA. Its a melee/ranged hybrid class and thats what Assault SW is intended to represent.

SH can't even use 3 of their melee attacks or any of their ranged skills in SA and they don't get the BS convertion to STR when not in SA.
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dansari
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#15 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:51 pm

roadkillrobin wrote:Several ranged attacks can be used in Assault Stance with AS benefits. Its not really limited to spamming GS and BA. Its a melee/ranged hybrid class and thats what Assault SW is intended to represent.

SH can't even use 3 of their melee attacks or any of their ranged skills in SA and they don't get the BS convertion to STR when not in SA.
Yes, but now you can't ranged auto attack when in Assault. So, if you're in assault from range your damage does drop off. It's not as effective as being in melee with assault or being ranged with skirmish.
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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#16 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:58 pm

dansari wrote:
roadkillrobin wrote:Several ranged attacks can be used in Assault Stance with AS benefits. Its not really limited to spamming GS and BA. Its a melee/ranged hybrid class and thats what Assault SW is intended to represent.

SH can't even use 3 of their melee attacks or any of their ranged skills in SA and they don't get the BS convertion to STR when not in SA.
Yes, but now you can't ranged auto attack when in Assault. So, if you're in assault from range your damage does drop off. It's not as effective as being in melee with assault or being ranged with skirmish.
Also it was stated bazillion times: Assault need 2-3 tactics to be effective and those tactic are melee based so all this "ya still can shot and stuff" is kinda irrelevant. It's basically fluff damage w/o certain range tactics.
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lefze
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#17 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:40 pm

daniilpb wrote:
dansari wrote:
roadkillrobin wrote:Several ranged attacks can be used in Assault Stance with AS benefits. Its not really limited to spamming GS and BA. Its a melee/ranged hybrid class and thats what Assault SW is intended to represent.

SH can't even use 3 of their melee attacks or any of their ranged skills in SA and they don't get the BS convertion to STR when not in SA.
Yes, but now you can't ranged auto attack when in Assault. So, if you're in assault from range your damage does drop off. It's not as effective as being in melee with assault or being ranged with skirmish.
Also it was stated bazillion times: Assault need 2-3 tactics to be effective and those tactic are melee based so all this "ya still can shot and stuff" is kinda irrelevant. It's basically fluff damage w/o certain range tactics.
Don't really see why switching stance is so hard to get the auto attacks enabled, you have to do so to snare for example anyways.

As for disregarding the ranged power the class has would also be very wrong. Sure you don't have 100 ft range, but the fact that you can put out any ranged dps at all as a mdps is something that has to be considered. Look at it this way, would making the stat copy from assault into a conversion instead meaning you get no ballistic skill at all in assault spec be a considerable nerf? Would locking you out of using skirmish to use ranged attacks while specced in assault be a considerable nerf? In both cases my opinion is that yes, removing assaults ability to deal ranged damage would indeed be a huge nerf, and so also is a big upside the class currently has and can't be disregarded.
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roadkillrobin
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#18 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:16 am

Fluff damage? Dots still ticks for 300 and Eagle Eye still hits for upwards 600-700. The convertion from BS to STR doesn't take the BS away and it adds quit alot of WS aswell. Its also the only stance were you are able to use SFA and Acid Arrow for decent mobility in combination with ALOT of armor.

Out of SH and SW, only SH are supose to be full melee as its melee stance completly lock you out from ranged mode. SW on the other hand is meant to hybrid when Assault speced, as it stance allows for it.

Soften upp target from range, go in for the finish and use it,s mobillity to get out safe again.

Scout main is meant for just the range part.
Skirmish main is meant just for the mobility part.
Assault adds melee and is clearly a hybrid tree.
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Lektroluv
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#19 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:24 am

Penril wrote:Moving to Discussions.

Your suggestion would make it similar to Crushing Anger (Blackguard), but with a longer CD. I don't see a problem with it.

Sorry it he didn't ask for something similar...Crushing anger doesn't drain the AP to the BG, he ask for drain the AP from target to caster.

He asking for a fixed amount of 50AP drained, compared to BG crushing anger which only REDUCE AP, not drain and in much lower valour looking at fixed value vs variable (0-10 points betwen 0-55 hate) :

0 points with 0-30 hate
10 points with 30-60 hate
20 points with 60-90 hate
30 points max for 90-100 hate

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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [Shadow Warrior] Counterstrike.

Post#20 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:30 am

Lektroluv wrote:
Penril wrote:Moving to Discussions.

Your suggestion would make it similar to Crushing Anger (Blackguard), but with a longer CD. I don't see a problem with it.

Sorry it he didn't ask for something similar...Crushing anger doesn't drain the AP to the BG, he ask for drain the AP from target to caster.

He asking for a fixed amount of 50AP drained, compared to BG crushing anger which only REDUCE AP, not drain and in much lower valour looking at fixed value vs variable (0-10 points betwen 0-55 hate) :

0 points with 0-30 hate
10 points with 30-60 hate
20 points with 60-90 hate
30 points max for 90-100 hate
And Crushing Anger also has faster cooldown and not limited to anything except Hate rate (which is quite easy to get)
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