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[Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#51 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:21 am

im not saying is efficent* nor that is the best spec and i know ppl dont spec like that right now but does that mean that the boss mastery is so bad on his own or that most BO spec are dictate from the offensive tank meta + stats steal be way too good?

REASONS -> why ppl do not spec it; is it bad or just brawler centric spec is just sooooo better

this is a different questiom but it matter regarding the balance of the mastery which imply also what new tool you wanna assign to a mastery in place of a lackluster tactic.
Last edited by Tesq on Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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predathore
Posts: 19

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#52 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:36 pm

Spoiler:
Gangan wrote:
predathore wrote: 3. Propose a viable solution to the problem.

-a) Make the tactic only proc while in Da Greenest bellow.(And possibly move it higher in the masterytree, if deemed too strong)
-make the heal last 20 seconds instead of 10 (same amount of heal but takes 2x as long)
-make the heal be able to re-apply itself if procced after 15 seconds (a 5 second window for reapplication) and stack with the
previous heal, also refreshing it. Maximum stacks: 5 ---> You can gain a stack every 15 seconds, but only if you're being
attacked (since it only procs in Da Greenest) ---> Counterplay: don't attack in those 5 seconds.
This might even make Da Greenest bellow a viable choice, since it gets outshined by Da Biggest in every way.

...

b2) giving it a 10% critical damage reduction
portion
I thought of some kind of combo out of this two proposals.
- Bind it to Da Greenest
- Every time Da Greenest procs, your group gets an additional buff You got Nuffin'
- This proc lasts 9sec and is reaplied every 3sec, stacking up to 3x
- For each stack the chance to be crit-hit is reduced by 1.5% (4.5% in total) or the crit-damage taken is reduced by 5% (15% in total)
(Values are discussable of course^^)
The tactic however should be placed higher in the tree, as it would be to powerful for 4 points.

I my opinion, with this changes it would fit nicely into the "tanky" boss path, as it would espacially boost the role of mitigating the incoming damage for your group. It's a simple concept: as long as you are taking damage, your group has to take less. Combined with other Da Greenest-skills, like Rock 'ard and Big Swing / Big Brawlin' and of course the armor/resi-buff itself, I would guess you could take a nice chunk out of the enemies potential damage.
It shouldn't be to hard to keep the buff stacked in group fights, as long as you stay close to your guarded target, that's under attack or stand in the frontrow during a push/defense in rvr.
I like the idea of stacking crit reduction. And as Penril said YGN could swap places with NCM since NCM is pretty much only worth the 4 points.
Spoiler:
DokB wrote:Solution a) The problem with the tactic doesn’t lie with being able to reapply/refresh it, it’s mainly the low healing amount and the time between ticks. If you double the amount of time the buff lasts but don’t adjust the healing amount, then it just makes it worse.
Solution b) Tactic is within the Boss tree which is built around group buffs, therefore it should remain a group orientated buff of some sort.

B1) Even a 100% heal amount increase doesn’t make the tactic worth taking, the time in between heal ticks and the amount won’t save you or your group mates from burst in a group setting or larger. It’s basically fluff healing. Admittedly it would be decent in solo play however.

B2) 10% Crit Chance Reduction is the most preferable of the options here since that is the BO’s biggest weakness but like others said, definitely too powerful for a 4 point tactic.
What about swapping places with Big Brawlin? Or would it still be too low in the tree you feel?
What if the healing remained the same, but could only be stacked up to 3 times? Or what if it healed the same as now but in half the time? (Still only a 100% buff, but it could maybe stay as an AoE heal and not be broken) Also if it can switch places with NCM it wouldn't have to be limited to only a 100% buff. Switching with Big Brawlin' imo would make BB too easy to get for other trees, in addition YGN would be too low in Da Greenest. Makes more sense to switch places with the already weak NCM.

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joaolol
Posts: 16

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#53 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:51 pm

Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:im not saying is efficent* nor that is the best spec and i know ppl dont spec like that right now but does that mean that the boss mastery is so bad on his own or that most BO spec are dictate from the offensive tank meta + stats steal be way too good?

REASONS -> why ppl do not spec it; is it bad or just brawler centric spec is just sooooo better

this is a different questiom but it matter regarding the balance of the mastery which imply also what new tool you wanna assign to a mastery in place of a lackluster tactics
i am sry tesq, i dont mean to be rude - pls dont get me wrong, but i think your analysis works only on paper. noone specs right tree because its simply useless, as u said and many ppl are trying to argue. but i bet many on this thread would be happy to try new things if they see it as viable. the brawler and mid tree are the only specs that any BO, in any comp, would think of.

the only reason to go right tree is 'rock 'ard' (questionable choise as pointed) and/or 'big brawling' as "i need to spend a few more points" and this feeling is awful.
Spoiler:
(which 10sec cd to 'big brawlin', in current state, is a huge nerf - just look at the BO build thread... tons of discussion there - maybe changing it to be less then 5 sec slow and less than debuff to build time would be better than placing 10s cd... idk... and its other topic...)
changing YGN may be the first step to make the right tree viable and possibly changing the brawler meta. crit reduction its a incentive, imo, and numbers around the % needs to be indeed discussed. if crit reduction will be the change it needs to be swapped it with another for the sake of balance, but at the same time the 'swapped tatic' needs to be updated to make the right tree viable (viable = not obligatory).

i dont see making YGN changes to 2h only as a incentive to spend points on it. 2h improves should go to the 'brawler tree' imo or in ability changes, as 'big un' discussion.
Spoiler:
in this logic: mid three is snb tank (viable on current state), left tree is off-tank/dps (viable on current state - guess just needs few adjustments to 2h BO) and right three should be pt buffer w/e 2h or snb.
predathore wrote:What if the healing remained the same, but could only be stacked up to 3 times? Or what if it healed the same as now but in half the time? (Still only a 100% buff, but it could maybe stay as an AoE heal and not be broken) Also if it can switch places with NCM it wouldn't have to be limited to only a 100% buff. Switching with Big Brawlin' imo would make BB too easy to get for other trees, in addition YGN would be too low in Da Greenest. Makes more sense to switch places with the already weak NCM.
only healing for the cost of ~12 points or even ~08 is too high imo. it would be for soloing/duel only... as 6man/rvr usualy has dedicated healers (note: i am not against soloing/duel). but if the tatic is going up it needs a stronger buff other than healing like crit reduction for pt... imo this way or YGN stay on same place but getting a healing buff...
Joaotrinta

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#54 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:02 pm

As much as I would like to have a group crit reduction tactic, I think it would be too powerful.
Spoiler:
Current version of Big Brawlin' tactic is not good. The tactic is kinda worthless now. I'm planning to do a write up on it eventually to ask for it to be changed.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#55 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Spoiler:
NCM isn’t worth taking ever (core, 4pts, 11pts)

You buff the other group melee within 20”.

So typically 1 more outside friendly target (2-3 if you are lucky). What makes it so bad is you can do the same by spamming FML twice.

That has to be the worst tactic in game :)
Tesq SMH (80% magic 4s), DYG (chp fasta), NiDF (immunity), HTL are all better options than WAAAAGH in ”all” situations. (In situations where waaaagh could be ok you normally are better off with ST.)

BB simply is not an option anymore because you loose the ability to jump plans and statsteal
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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ragafury
Posts: 684

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#56 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:05 pm

Spoiler:
3x - 4x bo in aoe warband with waaagh spec especially if you run sorcs and zealot dps is a lot of aoe dmg generated by tanks.
9/10 fights you win by just having better dps with enough utility, not other way around in wb size.

You don't even lose those tools you mentioned. For dyg as an eg you just need rr 60 / RR 70.
The rest are class kit tools. But nidf is more useful in smallscale since you have access to bad gas and disorient aura in wbs.
Topic drifts again...
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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#57 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Time to lock.

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