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[Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#31 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:41 pm

I don't understand Penril. Detaunt was proposed by footpatrol as a counter proposal. Why shouldn't we discuss that as well? He proposed it as a redesign of the tactic, or rather returning it to what it once was. I thought it was part of the discussion about the tactic.

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Penril
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Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#32 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 pm

This is not footpatrol's proposal, and we are not discussing detaunt. Debunk OP's proposal or support him, but don't post new, completely different options. You can adjust OP's proposal though as long as it is still similar to what he intended.

However I can decide to let you discuss about any proposal you want for a certain skill, like I did yesterday on the Oppression thread. That's not the case for YGN.

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Acidic
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Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#33 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:40 pm

I am not a great fan of the options proposed here but as said, that's another thread.
Out of the option in the proposal the b options seem ok, the heal is so little that the group impact has no significance and buffing the group effects cause other balance issues so believe that making it self serving which can help in group play the -10% crit damage seems a bit lame as with initiative and rr the impact of Frits should be significantly reduced. This leaves me with buffing the health impact. The level now is so low I wonder if even 100% buff is nteresting, I would go with 150 % to actually make it useful.

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Collateral
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Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#34 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:52 pm

Not 10% less crit damage, but 10% less chance to be crit. Very big difference. Also with recent sw changes, and, as mentioned before, all the order crit stacking, I really think it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would give bo another role in small scale play other than off tank. Sure it has a lot of group buffs, but everyone who plays bo in a group knows the best role it currently fulfills. And that's the cookie cutter off tank.

predathore
Posts: 19

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#35 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Acidic wrote: The level now is so low I wonder if even 100% buff is nteresting, I would go with 150 % to actually make it useful.
I think that would make BO a bit too strong for solo play, especially for how low in the mastery tree the tactic is.

Penril
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Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#36 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:25 pm

predathore wrote:
Acidic wrote: The level now is so low I wonder if even 100% buff is nteresting, I would go with 150 % to actually make it useful.
I think that would make BO a bit too strong for solo play, especially for how low in the mastery tree the tactic is.
Maybe it could swap places with No Choppin Me as someone pointed out. After all, NCM is pretty useless (it doesn't even stack with stat steal in spite of being a tactic) unless you run a Toughest/Greenest spec. Having a buffed YGN up in the tree would limit it for heavy Brawler, rr70- BOs.

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Acidic
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Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#37 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:53 pm

Collateral wrote:Not 10% less crit damage, but 10% less chance to be crit. Very big difference. Also with recent sw changes, and, as mentioned before, all the order crit stacking, I really think it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would give bo another role in small scale play other than off tank. Sure it has a lot of group buffs, but everyone who plays bo in a group knows the best role it currently fulfills. And that's the cookie cutter off tank.
Ok :) that is interesting , miss read.
This would make both the self serving buff options reasonable in my opinion

predathore
Posts: 19

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#38 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:49 pm

Spoiler:
Penril wrote:
predathore wrote:
Acidic wrote: The level now is so low I wonder if even 100% buff is nteresting, I would go with 150 % to actually make it useful.
I think that would make BO a bit too strong for solo play, especially for how low in the mastery tree the tactic is.
Maybe it could swap places with No Choppin Me as someone pointed out. After all, NCM is pretty useless (it doesn't even stack with stat steal in spite of being a tactic) unless you run a Toughest/Greenest spec. Having a buffed YGN up in the tree would limit it for heavy Brawler, rr70- BOs.
I like the idea of YGN switching places with NCM, in which case YGN wouldn't have to be limited in usefullness.

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joaolol
Posts: 16

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#39 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:09 pm

Spoiler:
Penril wrote:Maybe it could swap places with No Choppin Me as someone pointed out. After all, NCM is pretty useless (it doesn't even stack with stat steal in spite of being a tactic) unless you run a Toughest/Greenest spec. Having a buffed YGN up in the tree would limit it for heavy Brawler, rr70- BOs.
Changing usless tatic with useless tatic does not make any diff from the current state, and its nonsense. For this to happen NCM needs an update, and thats another topic 8-) .

But we have an impass here... the only thing we all aggree is that YGN in current state is weak and needs a change. Some say "de-taunt", some say "increase healing - as op said", some say "parry buff" (some only to 2h), some say "dispel" and others "critical chance reduction".

i guess these are all weak points of BO as in current state, and one tatic change cant change all this. but idk, maybe these weakness are keeping the game balance... but not for 2h BO i must insist hehehe
Spoiler:
predathore wrote:I like the idea of YGN switching places with NCM, in which case YGN wouldn't have to be limited in usefullness.
Yes but then NCM needs buff, cause as Penril pointed out doesent even stacks... i would never spend points in a tatic like this having (1) better options and (2) the chance of being in the same pt of stat steal BO that improves 130 ws instead of ~100 of mine
Collateral wrote:Not 10% less crit damage, but 10% less chance to be crit. Very big difference. Also with recent sw changes, and, as mentioned before, all the order crit stacking, I really think it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would give bo another role in small scale play other than off tank. Sure it has a lot of group buffs, but everyone who plays bo in a group knows the best role it currently fulfills. And that's the cookie cutter off tank.
Yes, i was thinking about that aswell. I would like to expand the idea:

1) YGN should give a flat "-10% crit reduction" (which i think its lame, no mechanic no fun)

2) when YGN procs with bellow it "heals SOMEVALUE" and gives "-10% crit reduction" depending on which stance/mechanic u are... like 5% on 2nd plan and 10% on 3rd plan

3) when YGN procs with bellow it "heals SOMEVALUE" and gives the flat "-10% crit reduction" buff

Depending how much it would heal and depending the -% crit reduction i dont see as op if comparing to order iniciative debuff vs bo iniciative in current state, and i see as an attractive change the samesame all day tatics.

but the question remains: if -% crit reduction: only for you or for pt?
Joaotrinta

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ragafury
Posts: 684

Re: [Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

Post#40 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:20 pm

joaolol wrote:
but the question remains: if -% crit reduction: only for you or for pt?
I rather see a lower value and for party than a selfbuff.
could also grant x% for the BO and Y% for the party.
but I would stick to the party just to keep the "theme" of the tree intact.
otherwise, if that trend would continue you get some patchwork talent trees which lose there flavour.
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