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[Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

[Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 pm

1. Identify the issue.
Keep it Goin'! is a lackluster tactic. I really like the design concept of this tactic but noyone spec's it.

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Current version

2. Explain why it's an issue.
So the current version of Big Slash is the BO's AoE knockback. The problem is that if you slot this tactic and constantly use big slash your handing out immunities like candy to everyone. Which is why noyone slots it and potentially the damage is not worth it because their is better options.

3. Propose a viable solution to the problem.
1. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted remove the knockback portion of Big Slash. Keep the rest the same. This is costing a entire tactic slot and needs to compete with the other damaging tactic's. Potentially remove the cooldown on big slash. Your giving up your utility for more damage so the tactic should be decent. If needed adjust the damage value.

2. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted increase the knockback distance of big slash from a medium distance to a large distance. Adjust with the cooldown accordingly for this new function or keep the cooldown the same. Keep the rest the same.

3. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted either decrease or remove the immunity timer's granted by the knockback. Adjust with the cooldown accordingly for this new function. Potentially only available for 2hnder's or not.

I personally like option 1 over option 2 or 3. Option 2 is interesting to think on though. Option 3 is likely overpowered quite a bit, but is semi unique and interesting to think on. I seriously even question option 3 as a valid suggestion but oh well I did it.

Option 1 allows for a 2nd step ability to be used that costs less ap then big swing and likely does more damage. Option 1 allow's for the BO to have 2 stat steal applier's in it's 2nd step, Big Slash and Big swing. Note: Big Swing is a AP Hog, Big slash with this tactic is not.

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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#2 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:33 pm

Moving to Discussions.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#3 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:02 pm

Remove the immunity seems gross, image multiple BO.....punt in ror differently from live interrupts for good, this could just potentially became a spammable kind of disable.

Same for make it a long punt. It's by default a medium 10 sec CD aoe punt.

It is alredy mandatory use it well both in rvr and small scale due giving immunity. If it had to increase in lenght it should also get a cd increase

The option 1 rather than be OP feel meh....but that's another matter
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nelsonus
Posts: 39

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#4 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:15 pm

I'd like to see option #2. Currently bo has an issue with punting tanks away from dps. This would make that easier with a loner distance, but you would still need to work for it to make sure you don't punt both.
Good idea for a talent
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dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#5 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:52 pm

Disagree with option 2. Please no long range AOE punts.

Disagree with option 3. Messing with the immunities, which are pretty consistent across the board except for WE/WH self punt, would be a mistake.

Option 1 sounds fine
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Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#6 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:17 pm

Solution 1.

I don't see the point why should i ever slot a tactic like that. Big Swing already covers our AoE damage ability in Gud Plan and we have Big 'Un in Best Plan. Our AoE rotation is already covered by those 2 skills, i don't think BOs need what looks like a Big 'Un mirror in Gud Plan. Maybe if it also applied some kind of debuff in addition to the damage increase it would be better. SnB doesn't need more damage and neither 2h builds.

Solution 2.

Could work, but personally i wouldn't use it. Since it's an AoE knockback, you can control it only to a certain extent, and imo it can be extremely strong if used right but it's also very risky.

Solution 3.

In my opinion, it's the best one, if restricted to 2h and balanced properly. Complete immunity removal sounds a bit too strong if stacked, but a good reduction could finally give 2h BOs a role and something unique to them, instead of being completely overshadowed by SnB builds.
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#7 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:52 pm

I am absolutely against removing the punt. This would make the tactic even more worthless to me, no matter how much damage it would do instead. It would hurt bo utility in pretty much every aspect of the game, so I just can't see how anyone in their right mind would want to do that.

Imo, the first two stances are not even meant to be damage dealing stances. That's why you have all the hard hitters in the last stance. You have to work your rotation before you can get to that point. Debuffing enemies first or buffing yourself, then dealing damage. So damage is not even a problem for this ability.

I don't agree about big swing being too costly for ap. It's an ability that lets the bo steal stats permanently (if you don't slot bb tactic, which makes it useless), and it should be a high costing ability, because the return of investment is quite high as well (although if you use the ap tactic you will have zero problems with ap). That's why you need ap feeders in your party if you want to provide such a boost to the party. I think that is quite balanced. Therefore creating an ability that costs even less than big swing and allows you to do basically the same thing would make it too strong. You still lose the punt which is pointless to me personally, but as I said I wouldn't use it, even if it was changed to be that strong for permanent stat stealing (which big swing does just fine if you have a normal group setup or if you are using the ap tactic).

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Acidic
Posts: 2045
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Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#8 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:46 am

The tactic is not useful at the moment I agree, however the choices suggested are not inline with what I think.
#1 as said a few times , no point to remove the punt, we have skills for ale damage without losing the aoe punt.
#2 ok only if the cool down timer not increased, but could be a bit over the top
#3 not in my opinion a good idea, too odd to bypass crowd control immunities, would open the door to all number of scary things,

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#9 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:38 am

Yep would not mess with aoe punt bf Right in da Jibblies is fixed (small punt wo immunity)

Also Moar Hardcore sort of needs attention first imo if bo punts are touched (prolly both could be free of immunity since they are medium 10s tac)
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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ragafury
Posts: 684

Re: [Black Orc] Keep it Goin'!

Post#10 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:58 am

While I agree with OP that the tactic is tied up in the useless category together with mor' hardcore, no'choppin me and Bring'em on you gotta check what Big Slash is.
I personally use it as a dmg stop tool in a majority of cases and as a "half numbers" tool on spots like cliffs, bridges etc.


on the consens I agree with Collateral.
The first 2 stances of BO are reserved for utility / buffs / debuffs, the 3rd stance is for the pain.
So while discussing tactics best keep that in mind to keep the BO theme overall intact.
footpatrol2 wrote: 1. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted remove the knockback portion of Big Slash. Keep the rest the same. This is costing a entire tactic slot and needs to compete with the other damaging tactic's. Potentially remove the cooldown on big slash. Your giving up your utility for more damage so the tactic should be decent. If needed adjust the damage value.
I truly don't know why anyone would do that (slot the tactic). you lose a great tool for minor overall DPS increase which is not the issue with BO. the skill itself would still be AoE and break all staggers, roots etc. in small scale.
DPS whise it would stille be outshined by Loudmouth, Gork Smash!, SYG.

in largescale you need the punt as one of the above mentioned tools in terms of fight contol in those mentioned cases in general.

The tactic would become as dead as it is right now. so changing it would be wasted time.
footpatrol2 wrote: 2. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted increase the knockback distance of big slash from a medium distance to a large distance. Adjust with the cooldown accordingly for this new function or keep the cooldown the same. Keep the rest the same.
lowers the skillcap on punt usage and makes the game in general easier as a BO.
atm you have to have a good decision making on BO if it is woth to AOE punt and trade the immunity.
a medium or worse long KB range would nullify that. standing in a cluster of healer? punt! wastes 2-5 seconds of the healer were they can't heal. standing on a bridge? medium aoe KB would be a no brainer, atm you have to angle etc to make it work.
with a change towards that, you could just run frontal towards the mass, last minute angle, punt. with small KBrange you have to go way deeper and commit yourself a bit.
also really broken together with zealots winds of insanity. a medium KB alone would potentially result in 6 + ~2 seconds chain CC.

footpatrol2 wrote: 3. When Keep it Goin'! tactic is slotted either decrease or remove the immunity timer's granted by the knockback. Adjust with the cooldown accordingly for this new function. Potentially only available for 2hnder's or not.
touching immunities in general is a bad idea imo.
there are already skills with exceptions (like I mentioned) etc.. for the sake of streamlining I would leave it untouched.
also, if you want a punt machine you can get a BG or even a chosen with the according tactic.
I like that this game has "decision making" in terms of setup.

My counter suggestion is to let the tactic buff / aim for another skill of brawler or the warbellows.
especially the warbellows would be a good target since every tree has something to modify them besides brawler.
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