[BG] Filled with Fury

[michela89]

Solution 2: I don't think this is necessary. I've found the BG doesn't need to compete with the BO/SM (BO only comes out on top due to Skullthumper/Loudmouth/THC but only slightly) since both have very respectable damage. I personally feel the BO/SM should remain the go-to DPS offtanks since they lack a real punt and only really bring damage/select debuffs to the table. Meanwhile BG can still be an extremely durable DPS offtank, while bringing a different skill set to a group. The difference in crit percentage values isn't that extreme since the BG can debuff people a further 10% from CD while the IB can buff anyone with AF.

I agree, when comparing 2 tactics from different classes before going "hey this one it's actually better!" we should also keep in mind why is that so, and what's the difference between those classes.
BG already has the upper hand when it comes to utility compared to BO/SM, also like it was already mentioned they also have an additional tool to further improve crit (for everyone).

So keeping this in mind I don't think it should be made any easier to maintain 100% uptime for this 15% crit chance.

[ashton007]

Spoiler:

Solution 2: I don't think this is necessary. I've found the BG doesn't need to compete with the BO/SM (BO only comes out on top due to Skullthumper/Loudmouth/THC but only slightly) since both have very respectable damage. I personally feel the BO/SM should remain the go-to DPS offtanks since they lack a real punt and only really bring damage/select debuffs to the table. Meanwhile BG can still be an extremely durable DPS offtank, while bringing a different skill set to a group. The difference in crit percentage values isn't that extreme since the BG can debuff people a further 10% from CD while the IB can buff anyone with AF.

I agree, when comparing 2 tactics from different classes before going "hey this one it's actually better!" we should also keep in mind why is that so, and what's the difference between those classes.
BG already has the upper hand when it comes to utility compared to BG/SM, also like it was already mentioned they also have an additional tool to further improve crit (for everyone).

So keeping this in mind I don't think it should be made any easier to maintain 100% uptime for this 15% crit chance.

Well the IB one is less work also, and more convenient.

Avoid blanket statements like this as: 1) they add little to discussion; 2) comparisons with mirrors aren't usually encouraged in these discussions. Elaborate on your points. Why is it more convenient when it also takes up a tactic slot and requires the user to be above 50% grudge? etc - ptp3

[Ramasee]

SM critical tactic provides 0, 10%, 20% on every three abilities; not counting use of sudden shift. Yes Ether Dance always gets the 20% critical, but the auto attack that happens after it (due to channeling) will not. Every other balance rotation for a Khaine swordmaster will use blurring shock which does as much impact damage as gryphon's talon (a normal balance ability) and the proc damage has no modifiers. [At least for damage, instead of utility]

In addition, many improved balance abilities hit the same (path of vaul) or less (path of khaine/Hoeth) than normal balance abilities. So the 10% crit usually goes to less damaging abilities. I haven't played a BO so I do not know if they share the same lower damage "gud plan" abilities.

Even if you ignore everything above, the tactic evens out to 10% constant crit.

However Fueled with Fury is 15% for 5s, will affect all your auto attacks, and all of your abilities for the duration. A few people have said with good play that you can keep near 100% uptime. BGs also have better critical hit synergy with thirst for death.

As such, I would say filled with fury is better than SM/BO critical hit tactics and based on other people in the thread that 5s duration is more than sufficient.

[Eathisword]

I see no reason why solution 1 would cause any problem. It being 10s. Any BG that plays with more than 1 bar of buttons will spend Hate once every 10s in nearly all fights.

Considering this and to save coding time, the tactic could just be replaced by IB's tactic, 15% at or above 50 hate. It would probably make no noticeable gameplay difference than having it reapply everytime you spend hate if it was to last 10s or more.

Arguments :
To people saying that a stronger crit tactic would bring BG too close to SM/BO. It's just no the case. The current buff has probably 75% uptime on a casual BG player (using bubble, FH, CD). Giving it 25% more uptime (x 15% crit) would be like a 2% damage increase. To good BG with already 90%+ uptime, it prepresent a sub 1% increase in damage. Its just not a compelling argument.

The flip side is : this change wouldn't really accomplish anything either.

[ashton007]

I see no reason why solution 1 would cause any problem. It being 10s. Any BG that plays with more than 1 bar of buttons will spend Hate once every 10s in nearly all fights.

Considering this and to save coding time, the tactic could just be replaced by IB's tactic, 15% at or above 50 hate. It would probably make no noticeable gameplay difference than having it reapply everytime you spend hate if it was to last 10s or more.

Arguments :
To people saying that a stronger crit tactic would bring BG too close to SM/BO. It's just no the case. The current buff has probably 75% uptime on a casual BG player (using bubble, FH, CD). Giving it 25% more uptime (x 15% crit) would be like a 2% damage increase. To good BG with already 90%+ uptime, it prepresent a sub 1% increase in damage. Its just not a compelling argument.

The flip side is : this change wouldn't really accomplish anything either.

Its just that it costs mastery points to get really... I think it deserves to be easier to use just for that matter alone. And like you said making it 10 seconds doesnt mean it will make the class over-tuned, I simply wish for this tactic to be more simple to use. Me and paurke have talked on this matter before, in game.

[daniilpb]

Solution number 1 looks like simple QoL change. Personally, I’ve never had trouble with keeping this tactic up. It may make it a bit more easier so why not.
Solution number 2 may help the class a bit more. Since the best dps tank in the game is SM, thanks to Spiritual damage, Blurring Shock and Wall of Darting Steel, destro dps tanks (currently, it is 2h BG) should deal really good physical damage to compete. +5% crit chance increase is not a big deal but may help with the situation.

[Fallenkezef]

Direct comparisons are a tad misleading.
Take Chosen, yes it can have a 15% passive but what else does a Chosen bring to the table?
BG can give an aoe crit buff, Chosen had to use a tactic and as far as I am aware it's crit buff doesn't apply from aoe.

Chosen have up to 3 passive buffs/debuffs while bg have a piano's worth of buffs/debuffs.

So I think it's important to look at classes as a whole than say "other tanks have this, why can't I?".

All that being said, I'm against classes being more "skill reliant" than others. I think skill should be based on the individual not the class itself so I support this change as qol improvement.

[Bozzax]

Long time since I played my BG but I still think this should be declined simply bc it would increase hate gen (not needed) and grant perma aa haste and wounds debuff etc

[ashton007]

Long time since I played my BG but I still think this should be declined simply bc it would increase hate gen (not needed) and grant perma aa haste and wounds debuff etc

Most of the better BG's actually don't even run the wounds/AA buff. And this wouldn't help our gen this would help with saving rather than having to spend every 5 seconds for something EVERY single other tank (not just chosen) gets for free.

[Fallenkezef]

Long time since I played my BG but I still think this should be declined simply bc it would increase hate gen (not needed) and grant perma aa haste and wounds debuff etc

Most of the better BG's actually don't even run the wounds/AA buff. And this wouldn't help our gen this would help with saving rather than having to spend every 5 seconds for something EVERY single other tank (not just chosen) gets for free.

Dors IB get it for free?