[Blackguard] S/B, Monstrous Ruin, Horrific Wound

[Toldavf]

The combo of points one and two would let you run +50% block with 100% up time and the only factor that controls its duration is your action points, there is no reason why black guard should have more block in its tanking tree. A standard shield and some renown spec is sufficient for 6 man, the current parry tactic is more efficient for guard mitigation and surely the disrupt tactic is more useful for warband play, i'm a bit worried about rebalanicng a tactic in such a way that it becomes genetically better than other tactics that are of a competing level. Even if we go with the mods opinion the tactic choices become either 30% disrupt or 15% block.

I don't see the need to make the toughest tank tougher, seems like bad balance to me.

Second point, Ave another one for bg? sure why not its damage will be pretty feeble i think so i don't see any reason to try to block this.

For the third point having out of the gate skills is kind of against the design of the class which is meant to grow stronger as the fight goes on, the armour debuff of bg is very useful as it is and considering how easy building 100 hate is I don't see the need in this. It probably works out as a considerable nerf to have to spend for such an important skill.

[germ32]

the armour debuff of bg is very useful as it is and considering how easy building 100 hate is I don't see the need in this. It probably works out as a considerable nerf to have to spend for such an important skill.

People keep saying this and I don't understand how that is a counter argument to my point. If it is so easy to build 100 hate why do you have a problem with spending some of that in order to debuff. The result is that you would be able to get your armor debuff applying faster at the beginning of fights.

[germ32]

The combo of points one and two would let you run +50% block with 100% up time and the only factor that controls its duration is your action points, there is no reason why black guard should have more block in its tanking tree. A standard shield and some renown spec is sufficient for 6 man, the current parry tactic is more efficient for guard mitigation and surely the disrupt tactic is more useful for warband play, i'm a bit worried about rebalanicng a tactic in such a way that it becomes genetically better than other tactics that are of a competing level. Even if we go with the mods opinion the tactic choices become either 30% disrupt or 15% block.

If s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h? If you read my initial post I outlined why NSP is inefficient in comparison to hold the line, what would anyone stand to gain from just spamming NSP in the middle of a fight? It has its situational uses but is otherwise not very effective in my opinion. The big question for me right now is why even bother using a shield, so I can occasionally maybe get a knockdown on a priority target if i get hit enough and I happen to block? Where is the sense in that if I can just use a 2h and knockdown on command and spam a bunch of parry.

Also since when did parry become the be-all-end-all of defense, like is everyone forgetting that tanks mitigate more damage from melee classes than anyone else? Where are these massive groups of people you are fighting that are consistently standing in front of you so you can parry them all day? RR70 blackguards cant even get the parry tactic without losing crimson death or multiple other tactics/abilities in the offensive tree now that ADM is at 11 points. Why is no one electing to take elite training as an alternative?

[TenTonHammer]

s. Why is no one electing to take elite training as an alternative?

becuase elite training is nothing more than a "panic button" and in no way compensates 2H BG for losing a tactic that made them good at mitigating guard damage

it is a drastic reduction in the survieabilty of the playstyle

f s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h?

becuase its both lore accurate and looks a lot cooler looking and is the most viable 2H tank spec on destro

[germ32]

f s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h?

becuase its both lore accurate and looks a lot cooler looking and is the most viable 2H tank spec on destro

Does that not also make it the most viable spec as a blackguard then?

[Tesq]

The combo of points one and two would let you run +50% block with 100% up time and the only factor that controls its duration is your action points, there is no reason why black guard should have more block in its tanking tree. A standard shield and some renown spec is sufficient for 6 man, the current parry tactic is more efficient for guard mitigation and surely the disrupt tactic is more useful for warband play, i'm a bit worried about rebalanicng a tactic in such a way that it becomes genetically better than other tactics that are of a competing level. Even if we go with the mods opinion the tactic choices become either 30% disrupt or 15% block.

If s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h? If you read my initial post I outlined why NSP is inefficient in comparison to hold the line, what would anyone stand to gain from just spamming NSP in the middle of a fight? It has its situational uses but is otherwise not very effective in my opinion. The big question for me right now is why even bother using a shield, so I can occasionally maybe get a knockdown on a priority target if i get hit enough and I happen to block? Where is the sense in that if I can just use a 2h and knockdown on command and spam a bunch of parry.

Also since when did parry become the be-all-end-all of defense, like is everyone forgetting that tanks mitigate more damage from melee classes than anyone else? Where are these massive groups of people you are fighting that are consistently standing in front of you so you can parry them all day? RR70 blackguards cant even get the parry tactic without losing crimson death or multiple other tactics/abilities in the offensive tree now that ADM is at 11 points. Why is no one electing to take elite training as an alternative?

-first you are proposing to nerf the armor debuff because bg can debuff 1.2k+ of armor at max hate if you invest in the mastery enough
-second 2h bg take parry tactic for orvr, even under rr 70 and run offensive tactic in orvr is a suicide even more now that you cant have both second toughness tactic with parry bellow rr70.
-The build you are talking about are s+b for small scale and 2h for small scale or either solo. The BG s+b for orvr have hold the line instead crimson death as both 2h and s+b can spam aoe if they want.

your change would just nerf 2h bg for orvr (again---)while not being usefull for small scale s+b while buffing orvr s+b which do not need even more defensive tools,,,,,, that build is so packed with def stuff that it could see disrup tactic stop stack with hold the line seriusly......

if there is something to nerf it's the st spec 2h dmgs, tbh not agree on the nerf of the durability in 2h you are a tank you must play a tank, Remove the parry from the bg and you will relegate 2h into sc bb 2h tank for orvr.

[germ32]

The combo of points one and two would let you run +50% block with 100% up time and the only factor that controls its duration is your action points, there is no reason why black guard should have more block in its tanking tree. A standard shield and some renown spec is sufficient for 6 man, the current parry tactic is more efficient for guard mitigation and surely the disrupt tactic is more useful for warband play, i'm a bit worried about rebalanicng a tactic in such a way that it becomes genetically better than other tactics that are of a competing level. Even if we go with the mods opinion the tactic choices become either 30% disrupt or 15% block.

If s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h? If you read my initial post I outlined why NSP is inefficient in comparison to hold the line, what would anyone stand to gain from just spamming NSP in the middle of a fight? It has its situational uses but is otherwise not very effective in my opinion. The big question for me right now is why even bother using a shield, so I can occasionally maybe get a knockdown on a priority target if i get hit enough and I happen to block? Where is the sense in that if I can just use a 2h and knockdown on command and spam a bunch of parry.

Also since when did parry become the be-all-end-all of defense, like is everyone forgetting that tanks mitigate more damage from melee classes than anyone else? Where are these massive groups of people you are fighting that are consistently standing in front of you so you can parry them all day? RR70 blackguards cant even get the parry tactic without losing crimson death or multiple other tactics/abilities in the offensive tree now that ADM is at 11 points. Why is no one electing to take elite training as an alternative?

-first you are proposing to nerf the armor debuff because bg can debuff 1.2k+ of armor at max hate if you invest in the mastery enough
-second 2h bg take parry tactic for orvr, even under rr 70 and run offensive tactic in orvr is a suicide even more now that you cant have both second toughness tactic with parry bellow rr70.
-The build you are talking about are s+b for small scale and 2h for small scale or either solo. The BG s+b for orvr have hold the line instead crimson death as both 2h and s+b can spam aoe if they want.

your change would just nerf 2h bg for orvr (again---)while not being usefull for small scale s+b while buffing orvr s+b which do not need even more defensive tools,,,,,, that build is so packed with def stuff that it could see disrup tactic stop stack with hold the line seriusly......

I never said I wanted to nerf the armor debuff, i was just going by the base value at full hate with no points invested in the left path. I included in brackets that the 800 armor debuff should scale with the left path in my original post.

One could argue that you would be (or should be) better off running a shield in orvr if you want to do anything greater than 12v12 combat, everyone is entitled to their opinion though.

[dansari]

Friendly request to spoiler your wall of text quotes

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

If s/b is already so powerful why do you see the majority of blackguards using a 2h? If you read my initial post I outlined why NSP is inefficient in comparison to hold the line, what would anyone stand to gain from just spamming NSP in the middle of a fight? It has its situational uses but is otherwise not very effective in my opinion. The big question for me right now is why even bother using a shield, so I can occasionally maybe get a knockdown on a priority target if i get hit enough and I happen to block? Where is the sense in that if I can just use a 2h and knockdown on command and spam a bunch of parry.

Also since when did parry become the be-all-end-all of defense, like is everyone forgetting that tanks mitigate more damage from melee classes than anyone else? Where are these massive groups of people you are fighting that are consistently standing in front of you so you can parry them all day? RR70 blackguards cant even get the parry tactic without losing crimson death or multiple other tactics/abilities in the offensive tree now that ADM is at 11 points. Why is no one electing to take elite training as an alternative?

-first you are proposing to nerf the armor debuff because bg can debuff 1.2k+ of armor at max hate if you invest in the mastery enough
-second 2h bg take parry tactic for orvr, even under rr 70 and run offensive tactic in orvr is a suicide even more now that you cant have both second toughness tactic with parry bellow rr70.
-The build you are talking about are s+b for small scale and 2h for small scale or either solo. The BG s+b for orvr have hold the line instead crimson death as both 2h and s+b can spam aoe if they want.

your change would just nerf 2h bg for orvr (again---)while not being usefull for small scale s+b while buffing orvr s+b which do not need even more defensive tools,,,,,, that build is so packed with def stuff that it could see disrup tactic stop stack with hold the line seriusly......

I never said I wanted to nerf the armor debuff, i was just going by the base value at full hate with no points invested in the left path. I included in brackets that the 800 armor debuff should scale with the left path in my original post.

One could argue that you would be (or should be) better off running a shield in orvr if you want to do anything greater than 12v12 combat, everyone is entitled to their opinion though.

fair enogh for the armor debuff, tough not really for the s+b thing, first 4/6 tank are fully s+b more than 2h, second just nope, if you really jastto go s+b in orvr then you would had aoe stuff on mid mastery , what you have? just the aoe snare(every tank cc exept punt and kd is aoe), good pick, what have the 2h mastery? aoe crit debuff, why it is aoe? maybe because it is designed to be used in mass scale situation and not small scale, it is also a 13pt skill ..hell if 2h bg is more orvr friendly than s+b bg. ...

2h/s+b are just way to play the class they dont dictate how you should play by default, some classes can go 2h better than others, sm/Bg/kobs are those classes in orvr atm, and luckily if not it would all be s+b boredom in rvr. We are lucky that at least both realm have some orvr 2h tanks good enough /viable to have some variety and not like they are taking spots of dps.....wanan run a bg into Orvr need to go like full 2h spec but load with def tactics...and cleanse moral 1 aswell....

[TenTonHammer]

Does that not also make it the most viable spec as a blackguard then?

no because 2h bg has 2 niche rolls

the first is for warbands to spam out crimson death+Hastend doom, monstrous rending AoE and furious howl

and the second in a niche melee train assist tank


SnB BG is a very strong, extremely durable alternative to black orc as a second tank for 6 man parties and game-play in general