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[SW] 15pt Path of Scout Ability

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.

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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#41 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:31 pm

Koha wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:44 pm
Same CD as Vengeance of N.... 300 spirit dmg bonus on a 1 sec ICD say 375 with VoN. This ability would be better than witchbrew, no built up time 10 attacks >> 6 ...

More over spirit is the most common aoe debuff thx to SM.

The problem with Scout tree is that it is currently outshined by assault and skirmish tree. Nerf one of these two, scout will look brighter.
Nerfing other trees won't help Scout to shine because it has huge glaring issues.
After such posts I don't really know if people are informed so badly or just trolling? Scout was in the same sh*t spot on live and here (sw in general was in that spot actually). Currently, there is an Assault build which is competitive because it was fixed and given strong utility, other parts of the class were nerfed which brought it from meh spot to only-pug-farm. Organized WB play and small scale is closed for rdps builds of SW because other classes can bring much more.
Since Scout is a single target build it can't be balanced around WB play therefore it must be balanced around small scale. For small scale it lacks:
1. Consistency of damage
2. Reliability of damage
3. Utility
4. Survivability
This proposal addresses p.1 and p.2 in some kind. It's well known that you must have good stable damage which can be applied quickly enough in case of fast targets switches. Since it was proposed that Scout with that skill would move from dot-sustain type of damage into direction of constant instant damage, that should be more acceptable in small-scale environment which is very aggressive to range classes currently and it should not be left as it is, because then all range ST damage classes/builds will be claimed as pug-farmers forever.
Issues should be fixed one by one until the class will get into viable spot in organized play. Once Scout will reach that spot, unfixed issues could be left as downsides. Currently, there are only downsides and no valuable sides, no balance in reward/effort.
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Acidic
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#42 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm

This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down

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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#43 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm
This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down
So sad you can’t realize that it will work like simple dot with ~200 ticks (probably even less) through all mitigations. Which also won’t work w/o maintained damage application aka Frozen touch but with limited procs.
It clearly looks weak so most likely I will adjust cooldown/duration later.
Spoiler:
And yeah, won’t fight with your game knowledge anymore, not my department.
Last edited by daniilpb on Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peterthepan3
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#44 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 pm

Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm
This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down


Would appreciate some elaboration on why you think it would prove to be a significant damage buff - bearing in mind it would have an ICD, and require a hefty 15 point investment (shouldn't abilities at that position be amazing?).
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Acidic
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#45 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:29 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 pm
Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm
This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down


Would appreciate some elaboration on why you think it would prove to be a significant damage buff - bearing in mind it would have an ICD, and require a hefty 15 point investment (shouldn't abilities at that position be amazing?).
Well from my point of view the mitigation of possible damage is irrelevant as this is what group play and player investment in tough/armor ....
So we are left with the raw damage that is to be granted by the use of the skill.
As said before the skill on one gcd is enabling an increase in damage up to 3k every 30 second. This is a significant buff and is higher than the equivalent skills of other classes.
Just a note, if the vision of the game is to change all classes 15 point abilities to amazing that probably should start with a proposal for all classes giving a some guidelines of scope. Just now as this is a balance discussion I see this change unbalancing things.
Last edited by Acidic on Thu May 10, 2018 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Darks63
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#46 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:34 pm

Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm
This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down
It seems like your thinking this ability is like a morale, but its 300 spirit which means it will likely lose at a minimum 50% of its damage. If you add in that 10 attacks in 10 secs in scout stance would be very hard to pull off and the amount of dodging it's very likely the best you could pull off consistently would be 7 to 8 procs. I think imo as proposed its a bit too weak for what you give up for it.
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Darosh
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#47 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:46 pm

Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:29 pm
This is a significant buff and is higher than the equivalent skills of other classes.
Equivalent skills as in 'skills' at the same position in the masteries?
Have you tested Slayer M4 (Trollslayer, Unleashed Power) yet? No-ICD M2 (Deadly Determination) for the entire group, proccing off AA, too ~ the very epitome of gamebreaking 'skill' as per your definition. You barely ever (= never) see it used because no one ever bothers picking it up (you lose quite a bunch of utility [e.g.: SL/NE] and on-demand pewpew [e.g.: ID] ... it additionally requires dedicated morale pumping, which you'll see once every thousand blue moons in pug paradise). The above applies to virtually every other M4 mastery slot there is, but the bit about ludicrous potency.

The proposal is about a replacement on-demand skill at M4 mastery position for an arguably underperforming spec that comes with a hefty drawback (e.g.: loss of access to crucial skills [HD/ini debuff/what-have-you], as Daniilpb elaborated in the OP), that will have to be compensated for by actually playing in a group and synergizing with others.
If the proposal was suggesting to place the skill just about anywhere else in the mastery or rework another skill for it, I'd agree with you ~ this way however the ratio of 'pewpew to better-not-bother' (especially given 10s duration for 10stacks, with 1s ICD for a cast-time heavy spec) is just fine, imho..
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Acidic
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#48 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:53 pm

Acidic wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm
This proposal is about simply replacing a tree skill that gives a significant damage buff.
The increase in damage is significant and beyond any equivalent skill so regardless what other issues are about this skill is too good at this level. I would think this level of powers would be at best to replace the m4 tactic unless it was significantly toned down
Ah probably if you read this line it would give you a clue that I miss read the proposal, counting issues :)
I say this skill should be a m4 replacement and that is actualy what the proposal is for :) opps
Was a long week so most of what I was saying is mitigated with this post.

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Darosh
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#49 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:57 pm

I feel like this very page of the thread is a clusterfuck of missunterstandings and missreadings, lol.
Congratulations.

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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]

Post#50 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:21 am

Before I make my own decisions on how numbers should be changed to justify the price of giving up on Powerful Draw and HD in Scout heavy builds, feel free to post your thoughts perfectly with argumentation but please stick to the porposal. Have other ideas/concepts? Feel free to make your own thread where we will discuss them.
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