[Implemented] Group cleansing.

[cevi]

Spoiler:

In short: Don't touch it.

Yes, group cleanse is powerfull. Thats what it should be, since you use a mastery point and a tactics slot!

Solution 1: Would kill this ability at all.

Solution 2: Thats what you usually remove. Lesser stuff, ae dots / debuffs which have no or short cooldowns. But it helps with focussing heals on single targets.
Haven't played a while, is there a LoS check to groupmates if you cleanse yourself?

Solution 3: Would kill this ability at all (or the healer)

Solution 4: Don't! Every healer knows what a 10s cd feels like.

Other healers have other skills. Thats what is cool about this game. Decurse with shields or HoTs. Single shields, more/better hots, buffs. Enough to compensate the lack of a group purge. Have played all healers and I must say, I never missed the group cleanse on non WP/DoK.


Carrobabe.

Restating a debunked point (mastery point and tactic slot was explicitly addressed in the original proposal precisely to stop you from posting this, thank you!) - Azarael

[Styrkarr]

I completely understand this topic and why group cleansing should change, but there is still something than bother me.
The goal is to reduce the WP/DoK domination among the other healers, but even if group cleansing is nerfed/changed or is given to another healer, DoK will still have their full cleanse M2. So DoK will still be the strongest healer for Destruction side, and 2 DoK in a group will give a full cleanse every 30 seconds, thanks to the M2.
So it will maybe change something for Order's healers, but nothing will change for Destruction's healers.


I raise this issue because nobody seems to talk about it. But i have no solution for that atm.

[Tholkienn]

Yes change the advantages of doks, or up the wp.

[Chaoself]

I completely understand this topic and why group cleansing should change, but there is still something than bother me.
The goal is to reduce the WP/DoK domination among the other healers, but even if group cleansing is nerfed/changed or is given to another healer, DoK will still have their full cleanse M2. So DoK will still be the strongest healer for Destruction side, and 2 DoK in a group will give a full cleanse every 30 seconds, thanks to the M2.
So it will maybe change something for Order's healers, but nothing will change for Destruction's healers.


I raise this issue because nobody seems to talk about it. But i have no solution for that atm.

Morales have 1 min CD and you wont use em all the time since Divine Favor its very useful too. Also, 2 doks its really easy to counter with IB, so you will kill the class and make RDPS even better and theyre way strong so is not a good idea.

[Bozzax]

I completely understand this topic and why group cleansing should change, but there is still something than bother me.
The goal is to reduce the WP/DoK domination among the other healers, but even if group cleansing is nerfed/changed or is given to another healer, DoK will still have their full cleanse M2. So DoK will still be the strongest healer for Destruction side, and 2 DoK in a group will give a full cleanse every 30 seconds, thanks to the M2.
So it will maybe change something for Order's healers, but nothing will change for Destruction's healers.


I raise this issue because nobody seems to talk about it. But i have no solution for that atm.

Order play with perma +10% healcrits, +20% wp core tactic, higher uptime on runie bless and another 15% inocoming if the KOTBS isn't stupid.

The 'other' m2 isn't exactly a wasted slot either

[Nekkma]

I completely understand this topic and why group cleansing should change, but there is still something than bother me.
The goal is to reduce the WP/DoK domination among the other healers, but even if group cleansing is nerfed/changed or is given to another healer, DoK will still have their full cleanse M2. So DoK will still be the strongest healer for Destruction side, and 2 DoK in a group will give a full cleanse every 30 seconds, thanks to the M2.
So it will maybe change something for Order's healers, but nothing will change for Destruction's healers.


I raise this issue because nobody seems to talk about it. But i have no solution for that atm.

Perfect balance does not exist and never will. There will always be a class that is the best healer. The thing to strive for is to make the difference between the best and worst as small as possible. Changing group cleanse is a step in the right direction. Bear in mind that even if double dok is still "meta" after these changes the vast majority of players does not run perfect comps.

[Morf]

I would vote for solution 1b either cleanse yourself or cleanse your group so you gain alot from the tactic but you also lose a little.
1a is to harsh imo and i imagine some dok/wp wouldnt even slot the tactic.
solution 2 is interesting but would take a huge amount of work and effort to get it right and would likely mean alot of debuffs and dots would need changing to cater for this change.
solution 3 seems unnecessary.
solution 4 sounds good and i have mentioned this change myself in the past BUT thinking about it again its to harsh, it is basically having a perma cooldown increase, word of pain and boiling blood with the tactic reducing duration to 5 secs would be even more devastating and those 2 dots are no1 choice to cleanse.

So for me solution 1b, group cleanse is still powerful but does have a downside to it, changing it to dramatically could cause major issues and as far as im concerned the game is not massively imbalanced just requires a few tweaks here and there.

[7rere7]

The first solution : WP/Dok are tanky ,they have good disrupt against magical attacks ,they can get group detaunt and absorb tactics.
I think the group cleanse apply for player group only ,not WP/DOk!

[Azarael]

Those of you taking the group cleanse proposals in complete isolation and complaining because of the power of RDPS should understand the following:

- It is very likely that AM/Shaman will receive an improved cleanse effect with similar value to the WP/DoK group cleanse post-adjustment or the RP/Zeal fast cleanse, regardless of the outcome of this topic.

- Engineer will be brought down a bit in the next patch.

- WE/WH side snare will be on trial.

- Massing in ORvR will make you siege bait, so diffuse and smaller engagements favouring RDPS less may become the norm.

If stating that nothing should be done because of the power of RDPS and because of general meta issues in terms of dps vs heal/cleanse, it is for you to propose a path to resolving the internal imbalance of the healers while still respecting that larger issue. I won't permit progress to be blocked because things may get worse generally before they get better. There are going to be cases in which we'll have to go through worse game states to balance individual classes and those states are invariably the result of dealing with crutch effects like group cleanse.

[Arbich]

I completely understand this topic and why group cleansing should change, but there is still something than bother me.
The goal is to reduce the WP/DoK domination among the other healers, but even if group cleansing is nerfed/changed or is given to another healer, DoK will still have their full cleanse M2. So DoK will still be the strongest healer for Destruction side, and 2 DoK in a group will give a full cleanse every 30 seconds, thanks to the M2.
So it will maybe change something for Order's healers, but nothing will change for Destruction's healers.


I raise this issue because nobody seems to talk about it. But i have no solution for that atm.

There was already enough talk about DoK M2 in different other threads. I don´t understand why this morale (a super-CW^^) sustain, while other abilities were changed/nerfed. But the morale is still there, so useless to talk about this.

And the only considerable buff for dot-classes (BW/Sorc, maybe engi), would be solution 4 and 1a. All other solutions would deal more with the LoS-issue (not required) of the cleanse. I don´t see a mayor nerf in these solutions.