[Implemented] Group cleansing.

[noisestorm]

And now you 2 are going to stop derailing this further.

@Tesq: AP as well as normal Mechanic is absolutely abundant on WP/Dok and breaking AoE detaunt is indeed a l2p issue. While it is true that one can burn his Essence really fast, you still have your high gains from Chalice as well as Lash/Prayer. This class is definitely less Ressource starved than any other healer and this isnt even in need of any discussion. If you use AP spells, your Soul will still have its Chalice regen on top of regaining X Essence from the spell itself. Even your detaunt awards you free Essence for the AP cost. If you use normal Essence spells for some time, your AP on the other hand can freely regen back up.

@Bozz: We dont care about rr100 videos or whatsoever. You simply need to show Tesq that even right now it is not necessary to kite at all as WP/Dok as you can still facetank stuff (or can't), or that kiting itself is unproblematic as well - and dont forget to tell us why this would be of any Value for us in regard to the topic itself. You should elaborate on your 60ft Idea a bit more and why it would be better than the already presented solutions and not cater to the ignorance of other Players. If they come with whatever arguments that do not target either your or the original proposal, you can ignore them.

[Bozzax]

Solution 1: Changing targeting mechanics for group cleanse

I have a disturbing feeling this will solidify 2xDOK and WP/RP even more

Solution 2: "Lesser" typing, or targeting AoE effects directly

If you can't cleanse important debuffs why use it? It will become a wasted GCD/tactic (group cleanse indirectly removed from game?)

Solution 3: Move the cleanse within the mastery tree

This is either removing group cleanse from play or solidifying WP/DOKs as back line healers. I'm guessing at the latter.

Solution 4: Modify the cooldown

You already struggle with cleansing vs more opponents. Having a longer CD would making it harder to fight a larger force because of buildups and kiting will be fcked as well (more queued damage/effects on your crew). Grp cleanse/hot/absorb is basically what you spam of CD when you kite.

Solution 5: Modify Range

So why am I writing all this derail in a group cleanse thread?

If group cleanse “gets it” why not make it a medium range ability (60feet)? As I see it there are two good things coming out of this
1. Group cleanse, the envy of all other healers becomes less efficient - Check!
2. “Tanky tough” back line WP/DOKs won’t be as effective as near front WP/DOKs - Check!

Suddenly all that armor, separate resource pool, short cast times makes sense. Heck even the 13pts heal channel becomes interesting.

[noisestorm]

Personally as a Cloth Healer (Also playing Zealot and Shaman besides AM), the envy for gcleanse will always be there. Even with a reduced 60 ft range its effectiveness is virtually unchanged. While it forces them to be a bit closer to the action, it doesnt change how they play at all if u ask me.
Why is that?
If someone on your team gets spammed with >certain important< debuffs, they naturally will try to disengage (or use RR cleanse for themself) and will come back closer to you anyway. Also IF they are getting all the important debuffs that you need to cleanse, you as a healer dont have to be afraid to get into the 60 ft radius either, because obviously all the enemies focus is on the other ppl needing the cleanse in the first place.

[stanger412]

I don't see what the problem with it is. If a wp/dock is cleansing than he is not healing, thus if the pressure is kept up they will eventually be overrun. It costs resource but a proper amount. The range is fine , since this game is about positioning anyway. You don't just kill groups without pushing in. As far as the cool down , it doesn't make sense to say it is too short bc all dps and tanks can keep applying debuffs, as theirs are short cool down also. I guess in all , I just feel like I have seen all classes and all combos take down good wps/doks , just requires effort. But that is the point. Healers are the backbones of the group. Every game that didn't have legit strong healers, didn't last long

This user plays WP as his only character - Azarael

[noisestorm]

I don't see what the problem with it is. If a wp/dock is cleansing than he is not healing, thus if the pressure is kept up they will eventually be overrun. It costs resource but a proper amount. The range is fine , since this game is about positioning anyway. You don't just kill groups without pushing in. As far as the cool down , it doesn't make sense to say it is too short bc all dps and tanks can keep applying debuffs, as theirs are short cool down also. I guess in all , I just feel like I have seen all classes and all combos take down good wps/doks , just requires effort. But that is the point. Healers are the backbones of the group. Every game that didn't have legit strong healers, didn't last long

In fact you can indeed consider a cleanse as Heal. For the example of a Dot with 1500 dmg over time, this one single cleanse in fact healed one(or all 6 members) for an effective value of 1500 (or 9000 hp). In case of a healdebuff you simply doubled the healing output of your second healer - which here again equals to X healing. So please dont tell me there are no problems with gcleanses, when they obviously are there.

PS: The same goes for Armor or Resist debuffs, as you effectively lower the enemies Damage and therefore have less to heal. You can consider this rather an "Absorb" if that fits you more. Nonetheless I dont want to see this 'argument' here anymore

[Bozzax]

Ofc it is a heal, it just heals "future damage" . The side effect that it also insta removes debuffs makes it even better.

Even with a reduced 60 ft range its effectiveness is virtually unchanged

Yep it hits WP/DOK efficiency at 61-100 feet only while allowing them to remain effective in medium-short range (0-60 feet).

It also means if you decide to slot group cleanse you'll forced to position much closer (45-50feet-ish) to front line to be 100% effective. I think this fits so nicely in the design thought of DOK/WPs being melee based healers that are tougher then cloth healers.

It was always the mystery to me why on earth they allowed "medium armor melee healers" to outperform a light armor, non melee @ 61-100 feet.

[Kopfmotorrad]

Why not give Archmage/Shaman and Runepriest/Zealot group cleanse too?

[Bozzax]

And now you 2 are going to stop derailing this further.


@Bozz: We dont care about rr100 videos or whatsoever.

RR100 or not those videos perfectly demonstrates why group cleanse is important to the game and why some of the alternatives suggested in op imo are less attractive.

[bloodi]

RR100 or not those videos perfectly demonstrates why group cleanse is important to the game and why some of the alternatives suggested in op imo are less attractive.

I wouldnt be so sure about that but they surely show why your suggestion of it working with less range would solve nothing.

DoK/Wp can work in close range, will often be in it to Smite/Lash since its 50ft. Making group cleanse work within 60 feet wouldnt solve anything.

The arguments overall on this thread seem to be "dont change it or we will all die" but hey, i cant say i am surprised.

[Pica]

Why not give Archmage/Shaman and Runepriest/Zealot group cleanse too?

If, to give better balance, each healer got a gcleanse, I'd give up swift runes for a group cleanse tactic.

I'm only one person, but without the old sov ap regen set bonus,(not sure if sov gear is even a thing now) I'd never consider swift runes because it absolutely destroys my ap.