[Implemented] Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

[TenTonHammer]

Spoiler:

God dang gobbo kiting holding back balance changes

Irrelevant to the discussion - Penril.

[bloodi]

mine had 0 point allocated anywhere

Yet is level 41.

[zumos2]

I guess they would need client access to make it into a WoP like effect.

You want to give Shaman a WoP. Ha. Right. With its burst kiting and self healing that doesnt sound at all op.

This is the problem with community input some of it is self serving. Dont forget shaman have the strongest toughness debuff in the game which give it better assist dps than am.

The passive aggressiveness in this post ... Honestly a bit of respect would be nice and maybe discuess what it would mean instead of just classifying it as OP.

[Thayli]

Spoiler:

Getting smarter was just an int steal. It was instant cast and was there to setup for a burst rotation. It was removed when shaman were given better kiting with an instant ap steal as really a int steal for less than a pot was useless. If anyone cares to remember the shaman ap steal used to be a 2s cast on a 20s cooldown. Reason being originally Shaman were a kiting heal class stationary damage class. The opposite of the AM. Players seem to want to give them kiting damage on top of kiting healing, burst and better debuffs. We seem to be going down the master of all route again.
As usual the reasons behind changes tend to be forgotten.

Master of all? They're the worst healer in the game still. They don't have the damage, tankiness or group heal/group cleanse of DoKs and WP. They don't have the AP rituals or flash heals of Zealots/RP. Their overall healing output is the lowest of any class. Even AM has better healing AND better damage. Yes, they are better at running away but unable to heal while running due to a lack of flash heals and having very long cast times. Zealots are better at healing under pressure than Shamans by a landslide. The ability to "kite" is meaningless if you can't do anything while running.

Experimental mode addressed some of these issues, but they are still significantly worse healers than everyone else. No decent group takes Shamans over Zealots or DoKs except for a morale pump party. Giving them a DoT/int steal is only going to put them a little closer to AM, not suddenly going to make them a master of all.

Not discussing AMs - Penril

[bloodi]

Spoiler:

Even AM has better healing AND better damage.

This is maybe not the place but i hope not even you believes that, Am has better damage and is mostly because the healdebuff and the extra dot, this change would make them just have the better healdebuff while Shammies can pump their group burst.

Healing wise? Shaman is better, DSU still exists.

Not discussing AMs - Penril

because i created the ability as a test, it was functionally core, the reason it was 41 was in case it accidentally got pushed live while I was playing with it so people couldnt get it

Yeah and thanks to that we can see what the scaling is, that is the point.

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Even AM has better healing AND better damage.

This is maybe not the place but i hope not even you believes that, Am has better damage and is mostly because the healdebuff and the extra dot, this change would make them just have the better healdebuff while Shammies can pump their group burst.

Healing wise? Shaman is better, DSU still exists.

because i created the ability as a test, it was functionally core, the reason it was 41 was in case it accidentally got pushed live while I was playing with it so people couldnt get it

Yeah and thanks to that we can see what the scaling is, that is the point.

In the current state of the game AM is MUCH superior to shaman in healing simply because of Wild Healing. And yes I've played both in the current state.

Not discussing AMs - Penril

[bloodi]

Spoiler:

In the current state of the game AM is MUCH superior to shaman in healing simply because of Wild Healing. And yes I've played both in the current state.

If all you do is spam group heal in a warband, yeah, you may have a point.

In a group comp where you can ap drain and be on the move? Hell no. Shaman in on top.

Not discussing AMs - Penril

[Telen]

Spoiler:

Master of all? They're the worst healer in the game still. They don't have the damage, tankiness or group heal/group cleanse of DoKs and WP. They don't have the AP rituals or flash heals of Zealots/RP. Their overall healing output is the lowest of any class. Even AM has better healing AND better damage. Yes, they are better at running away but unable to heal while running due to a lack of flash heals and having very long cast times. Zealots are better at healing under pressure than Shamans by a landslide. The ability to "kite" is meaningless if you can't do anything while running.

Experimental mode addressed some of these issues, but they are still significantly worse healers than everyone else. No decent group takes Shamans over Zealots or DoKs except for a morale pump party. Giving them a DoT/int steal is only going to put them a little closer to AM, not suddenly going to make them a master of all.

Shamans are the best kiting healer in the game. The have a 3 hots. One with a huge toughness boost. Compare that to the AM whos healing plummets when pressured. You cant always heal from behind keep walls. They also have the best toughness debuff in the game. They may not put out more dps on the scoreboard than an am but that is covered by the extra dps your group does to debuffed targets. All AM have is a lousy aoe debuff and their debuffs help SM who already have their own better debuffs. At least Shamans debuff can benefit the damage type magus dont have a debuff for.. AM are a very very selfish dps.

Not discussing AMs - Penril

[Telen]

Spoiler:

In the current state of the game AM is MUCH superior to shaman in healing simply because of Wild Healing. And yes I've played both in the current state.

If youre relying on WH instead of the ap drain youre doing it wrong

Not discussing AMs - Penril

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Master of all? They're the worst healer in the game still. They don't have the damage, tankiness or group heal/group cleanse of DoKs and WP. They don't have the AP rituals or flash heals of Zealots/RP. Their overall healing output is the lowest of any class. Even AM has better healing AND better damage. Yes, they are better at running away but unable to heal while running due to a lack of flash heals and having very long cast times. Zealots are better at healing under pressure than Shamans by a landslide. The ability to "kite" is meaningless if you can't do anything while running.

Experimental mode addressed some of these issues, but they are still significantly worse healers than everyone else. No decent group takes Shamans over Zealots or DoKs except for a morale pump party. Giving them a DoT/int steal is only going to put them a little closer to AM, not suddenly going to make them a master of all.

Shamans are the best kiting healer in the game. The have a 3 hots. One with a huge toughness boost. Compare that to the AM whos healing plummets when pressured. You cant always heal from behind keep walls. They also have the best toughness debuff in the game. They may not put out more dps on the scoreboard than an am but that is covered by the extra dps your group does to debuffed targets. All AM have is a lousy aoe debuff and their debuffs help SM who already have their own better debuffs. AM are a very very selfish dps.

With the experimental changes also AM has insane healing while pressured.

Not discussing AMs - Penril