[Implemented] Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

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zumos2
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#51 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:06 pm

Spoiler:
Telen wrote:
Thayli wrote: I honestly have no idea why people think the AP drain is good. It really isn't. Disrupt and Block rates are too high to merit spending a whopping 50 AP on something that fails most of the time. You also get no AP back if your target dies, runs out of AP or it gets cleansed. The only time to use it is in a 1v1 scenario. Not to mention you have no time to do anything but group healing and maybe Ere We Go for morale pump. Picking a target with low resists isn't really something you get to do in RVR with 10 fps.
I dont know why youre getting 10fps but it isnt hard to drain a rpds with low disrupt
Thayli wrote:I have no idea why people seem to think AM is getting the short end of the stick here, when we are discussing adding another DoT for a class that already has subpar damage compared to its mirror. Debuffs please, Shaman has horrible debuffs to the point that replacing one of them with Get'n Smarter would be my main suggestion for implementing the OP.
Horrible debuffs. Self damage debuff. Strongest toughness debuff in the game boosting all dps sources. Also a ranged debuff for magus main burst rotation which they cant self debuff. With the magus buffs now probably the highest burst a duo can make. That bad? AM have one WL skill that is hardly used and SM who have a better self debuff plus a second proc. As has been said a million times we arent balancing for 1v1 and shaman dps benefits their group far more than AM despite its lower dot damage.
The initiative debuff from Mistress of the Marsh is stronger than the extra toughness debuff of Shaman compared to Chosen. And apart from that neither have really strong debuffs making AM far superior because of higher dps. Also funnely enough dps AM is way more mobile than dps Shaman cause you are a lot less reliant of Radiant Lance/Brain Busta for your sustained damage. But either way, we are discussing Shaman changes, not AM changes ...
Not discussing AMs - Penril
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#52 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:08 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: I love how you changed your post from saying Wild Healing doesn't proc of HoTs, but here is the proof for you: https://youtu.be/LArGHcDGOig And none of those spells will let you run out of AP even though they are not effected by Wild Healing. But if you just run and cast hots, shields and cleanses on yourself you show that you don't know how to play. And I love the "I played this class for 6 years so I must be good" argument. I can bring that card too because my main on live was Shaman. But I'm more interested in what premades you are playing atm and against which premades you have fought and won?
Im sick of this argument. If you are able to stand and cast to take advantage of wild healing then whoever you are facing are idiots. But keep playing that way seriously.
Not discussing AM's - Penril
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zumos2
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#53 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:15 pm

Spoiler:
Telen wrote:
zumos2 wrote: I love how you changed your post from saying Wild Healing doesn't proc of HoTs, but here is the proof for you: https://youtu.be/LArGHcDGOig And none of those spells will let you run out of AP even though they are not effected by Wild Healing. But if you just run and cast hots, shields and cleanses on yourself you show that you don't know how to play. And I love the "I played this class for 6 years so I must be good" argument. I can bring that card too because my main on live was Shaman. But I'm more interested in what premades you are playing atm and against which premades you have fought and won?
Im sick of this argument. If you are able to stand and cast to take advantage of wild healing then whoever you are facing are idiots. But keep playing that way seriously.
Except I play against the best people of the server so ye ... And when people start repeating themselves instead of putting counter arguments in place they're basically conceding the argument ty.
"I play with the best people" is not a valid argument around here - Penril.
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#54 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:22 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: The initiative debuff from Mistress of the Marsh is stronger than the extra toughness debuff of Shaman compared to Chosen. And apart from that neither have really strong debuffs making AM far superior because of higher dps. Also funnely enough dps AM is way more mobile than dps Shaman cause you are a lot less reliant of Radiant Lance/Brain Busta for your sustained damage. But either way, we are discussing Shaman changes, not AM changes ...
AM can keep the initiative debuff up for 10s every 20. That if the targets stay in the pool. Puddle being the same length as the cooldown of scuse me means they have a 100% uptime ele debuff. A 100% uptime debuff for a magus aoe and burst type that it cannot debuff. As said stop looking at this 1v1.
We are NOT discussing AM - Penril
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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#55 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:23 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: Except I play against the best people of the server so ye ... And when people start repeating themselves instead of putting counter arguments in place they're basically conceding the argument ty.
Considering your elitist attitude you dont seem to know much about the class and Ive never heard of you.
Guess what, "I have never heard of you" isn't an argument here as well. If this is just a reaction to his post, take it to PMs and out of the balance discussion forums. User has been warned for this post - Penril.
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Penril
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#56 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:28 pm

If you guys continue with this, you will both be banned from the Balance discussion forum. And I don't want to read another "but Archmages!!!!" or "but Wild healing!!!" post as well.

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Azarael
Posts: 5344

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#57 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:30 pm

The AM discussion will stop. This topic has nothing to do with them.

Let me refocus it. The topic is now about whether Get'n Smarter should be reintroduced, replacing Yer A Weaklin', to give Shaman the missing third DoT more than anything else. Any objections should be delivered based on analysis of the internal balance of Shaman and the inter-healer balance of Destruction, NOT on anything to do with AM, and they should be delivered from the base of the experimental mode for Shaman, not AoR Shaman.

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Morf
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#58 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:45 pm

Spoiler:
If this was AOR i would tend to agree with some of telens points however ROR plays differently.
On AOR you could play a shaman as hot spam healer being very kite heavy, ttk was alot different you could build up enough hots with less emphasis on using group heal or bigger better an greener due to better mitigation and higher wounds, here on ROR hot spam simply doesnt work, you have to standstill to do any meaningful healing and when kiting (which would mean you are avoiding pressure) you are then at risk to pounce and rkd, something AM's dont have to care about.
Ap is something that was not an issue on AOR for shamans but is a problem here on ROR, again AM's have less problems due to wild healing.
As for dps, its a similar story you have to standstill for a long period of time to do any meaningful damage putting you at risk (pounce and rkd again), AM's dont need to, they can dot spam and standstill very briefly to finish off targets with the likes of radiant lance followed by searing touch.
Shamans having better debuffs is debatable ele resist + highest tough debuff v aoe ini debuff + radiant gaze, resist debuff is common (kotbs/chosen).
You can also look at morales gork sez stop is awesome however proper groups will just ignore it, its only good v idiots or serves as a 2 second root v ishas ward, huge absorb bubble to help survivability.
I am not saying AM's are easy but they are easier and better at both healing and dps'ing compared to shamans, its easy to point the finger at def troll spec shamans being the route of all evil.
What shamans can do better is aoe, da waagh is coming v dissipating energies( lol ability which needs a fix imo) and to run around with 30% speed boost being useless to your group until a sw or bw comes in with a rkd or you get pounced upon.
Enough spam, on topic shamans do really lack a 3rd dot, we dont need a wop type dot just a basic dot, whether its get'n smarter or changing gorks barbs to be a mirror of scatter the winds, either way its needed however get'n smarter does give the option of using a tough pot so not only do you gain an extra dot you also gain a slight def boost.
Morfee - Shaman / Mynnos - Kotbs / Grubod - Black Orc / Snubz - Squig Herder

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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#59 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:52 pm

Azarael wrote:The AM discussion will stop. This topic has nothing to do with them.

Let me refocus it. The topic is now about whether Get'n Smarter should be reintroduced, replacing Yer A Weaklin', to give Shaman the missing third DoT more than anything else. Any objections should be delivered based on analysis of the internal balance of Shaman and the inter-healer balance of Destruction, NOT on anything to do with AM, and they should be delivered from the base of the experimental mode for Shaman, not AoR Shaman.
Shaman have a 3rd dot that has the highest potential damage in morale 1.
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zumos2
Posts: 286

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#60 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:56 pm

Telen wrote:
Spoiler:
Azarael wrote:The AM discussion will stop. This topic has nothing to do with them.

Let me refocus it. The topic is now about whether Get'n Smarter should be reintroduced, replacing Yer A Weaklin', to give Shaman the missing third DoT more than anything else. Any objections should be delivered based on analysis of the internal balance of Shaman and the inter-healer balance of Destruction, NOT on anything to do with AM, and they should be delivered from the base of the experimental mode for Shaman, not AoR Shaman.
Shaman have a 3rd dot that has the highest potential damage in morale 1.
It's a fun skill but against good players highly ineffective and with a 60s cooldown. Therefor it can hardly be called a third DoT.
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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