[Implemented] Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

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Thayli
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#51 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:49 pm

bloodi wrote:If all you do is spam group heal in a warband, yeah, you may have a point.

In a group comp where you can ap drain and be on the move? Hell no. Shaman in on top.
I honestly have no idea why people think the AP drain is good. It really isn't. Disrupt and Block rates are too high to merit spending a whopping 50 AP on something that fails most of the time. You also get no AP back if your target dies, runs out of AP or it gets cleansed. The only time to use it is in a 1v1 scenario. Not to mention you have no time to do anything but group healing and maybe Ere We Go for morale pump. Picking a target with low resists isn't really something you get to do in RVR with 10 fps.
Telen wrote:Shamans are the best kiting healer in the game. The have a 3 hots. One with a huge toughness boost. Compare that to the AM whos healing plummets when pressured. You cant always heal from behind keep walls. They also have the best toughness debuff in the game. They may not put out more dps on the scoreboard than an am but that is covered by the extra dps your group does to debuffed targets. All AM have is a lousy aoe debuff and their debuffs help SM who already have their own better debuffs. At least Shamans debuff can benefit the damage type magus dont have a debuff for.. AM are a very very selfish dps.
HoTs but no flash heals is just worse. When someone gets focused (and in organized play they will), HoTs are completely and absolutely useless. If a WH or WL is in my face, HoTs do absolutely nothing. I know that Shaman's niche is supposed to be kiting, and I find it ironic that Zealots are still better at it.

I have no idea why people seem to think AM is getting the short end of the stick here, when we are discussing adding another DoT for a class that already has subpar damage compared to its mirror. Debuffs please, Shaman has horrible debuffs to the point that replacing one of them with Get'n Smarter would be my main suggestion for implementing the OP.
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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#52 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:53 pm

Spoiler:
Thayli wrote: I honestly have no idea why people think the AP drain is good. It really isn't. Disrupt and Block rates are too high to merit spending a whopping 50 AP on something that fails most of the time. You also get no AP back if your target dies, runs out of AP or it gets cleansed. The only time to use it is in a 1v1 scenario. Not to mention you have no time to do anything but group healing and maybe Ere We Go for morale pump. Picking a target with low resists isn't really something you get to do in RVR with 10 fps.
I dont know why youre getting 10fps but it isnt hard to drain a rpds with low disrupt
Thayli wrote:I have no idea why people seem to think AM is getting the short end of the stick here, when we are discussing adding another DoT for a class that already has subpar damage compared to its mirror. Debuffs please, Shaman has horrible debuffs to the point that replacing one of them with Get'n Smarter would be my main suggestion for implementing the OP.
Horrible debuffs. Self damage debuff. Strongest toughness debuff in the game boosting all dps sources. Also a ranged aoe debuff for magus main burst rotation and aoe which they cant self debuff. With the magus buffs now probably the highest burst a duo can make. That bad? AM have one WL skill that is hardly used and SM who have a better self debuff plus a second proc. As has been said a million times we arent balancing for 1v1 and shaman dps benefits their group far more than AM despite its lower dot damage.
Not discussing AMs - Penril
Last edited by Telen on Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zumos2
Posts: 286

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#53 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:01 pm

Spoiler:
Telen wrote:
zumos2 wrote:
Telen wrote: If you are dependant on wild healing you arent being pressured. Youre able to stand to cast gheal to get a proc.
That comment shows a complete lack of knowledge which doesn't suprise me at all. Wild Healing procs of EVERY TYPE OF HEAL, so also hots etc. So no you don't have to stand still and cast group heal to get a proc. And no healers are not pressured all the time, at least not if you play in a good team. So WH makes a huge difference and it even does when you are being pressured but as it doesn't reduce certain heals you can cast on the move it is less significant when being pressued.
And this comment shows a complete lack of knowledge because the hots, cleanse and shield dont take advantage of wild healing they are enchantments not a heal. Which is pretty much all your kiting heals unless youre spamming HE. As said if you are dependant on wild healing youre a gheal spammer facing bad players or sitting in a keep. Dont school me on a class I played for 6 years.
I love how you changed your post from saying Wild Healing doesn't proc of HoTs, but here is the proof for you: https://youtu.be/LArGHcDGOig And none of those spells will let you run out of AP even though they are not effected by Wild Healing. But if you just run and cast hots, shields and cleanses on yourself you show that you don't know how to play. And I love the "I played this class for 6 years so I must be good" argument. I can bring that card too because my main on live was Shaman. But I'm more interested in what premades you are playing atm and against which premades you have fought and won?
Not discussing AMs - Penril
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Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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zumos2
Posts: 286

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#54 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:06 pm

Spoiler:
Telen wrote:
Thayli wrote: I honestly have no idea why people think the AP drain is good. It really isn't. Disrupt and Block rates are too high to merit spending a whopping 50 AP on something that fails most of the time. You also get no AP back if your target dies, runs out of AP or it gets cleansed. The only time to use it is in a 1v1 scenario. Not to mention you have no time to do anything but group healing and maybe Ere We Go for morale pump. Picking a target with low resists isn't really something you get to do in RVR with 10 fps.
I dont know why youre getting 10fps but it isnt hard to drain a rpds with low disrupt
Thayli wrote:I have no idea why people seem to think AM is getting the short end of the stick here, when we are discussing adding another DoT for a class that already has subpar damage compared to its mirror. Debuffs please, Shaman has horrible debuffs to the point that replacing one of them with Get'n Smarter would be my main suggestion for implementing the OP.
Horrible debuffs. Self damage debuff. Strongest toughness debuff in the game boosting all dps sources. Also a ranged debuff for magus main burst rotation which they cant self debuff. With the magus buffs now probably the highest burst a duo can make. That bad? AM have one WL skill that is hardly used and SM who have a better self debuff plus a second proc. As has been said a million times we arent balancing for 1v1 and shaman dps benefits their group far more than AM despite its lower dot damage.
The initiative debuff from Mistress of the Marsh is stronger than the extra toughness debuff of Shaman compared to Chosen. And apart from that neither have really strong debuffs making AM far superior because of higher dps. Also funnely enough dps AM is way more mobile than dps Shaman cause you are a lot less reliant of Radiant Lance/Brain Busta for your sustained damage. But either way, we are discussing Shaman changes, not AM changes ...
Not discussing AMs - Penril
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#55 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:08 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: I love how you changed your post from saying Wild Healing doesn't proc of HoTs, but here is the proof for you: https://youtu.be/LArGHcDGOig And none of those spells will let you run out of AP even though they are not effected by Wild Healing. But if you just run and cast hots, shields and cleanses on yourself you show that you don't know how to play. And I love the "I played this class for 6 years so I must be good" argument. I can bring that card too because my main on live was Shaman. But I'm more interested in what premades you are playing atm and against which premades you have fought and won?
Im sick of this argument. If you are able to stand and cast to take advantage of wild healing then whoever you are facing are idiots. But keep playing that way seriously.
Not discussing AM's - Penril
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zumos2
Posts: 286

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#56 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:15 pm

Spoiler:
Telen wrote:
zumos2 wrote: I love how you changed your post from saying Wild Healing doesn't proc of HoTs, but here is the proof for you: https://youtu.be/LArGHcDGOig And none of those spells will let you run out of AP even though they are not effected by Wild Healing. But if you just run and cast hots, shields and cleanses on yourself you show that you don't know how to play. And I love the "I played this class for 6 years so I must be good" argument. I can bring that card too because my main on live was Shaman. But I'm more interested in what premades you are playing atm and against which premades you have fought and won?
Im sick of this argument. If you are able to stand and cast to take advantage of wild healing then whoever you are facing are idiots. But keep playing that way seriously.
Except I play against the best people of the server so ye ... And when people start repeating themselves instead of putting counter arguments in place they're basically conceding the argument ty.
"I play with the best people" is not a valid argument around here - Penril.
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#57 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:22 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: The initiative debuff from Mistress of the Marsh is stronger than the extra toughness debuff of Shaman compared to Chosen. And apart from that neither have really strong debuffs making AM far superior because of higher dps. Also funnely enough dps AM is way more mobile than dps Shaman cause you are a lot less reliant of Radiant Lance/Brain Busta for your sustained damage. But either way, we are discussing Shaman changes, not AM changes ...
AM can keep the initiative debuff up for 10s every 20. That if the targets stay in the pool. Puddle being the same length as the cooldown of scuse me means they have a 100% uptime ele debuff. A 100% uptime debuff for a magus aoe and burst type that it cannot debuff. As said stop looking at this 1v1.
We are NOT discussing AM - Penril
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Telen
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Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#58 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:23 pm

Spoiler:
zumos2 wrote: Except I play against the best people of the server so ye ... And when people start repeating themselves instead of putting counter arguments in place they're basically conceding the argument ty.
Considering your elitist attitude you dont seem to know much about the class and Ive never heard of you.
Guess what, "I have never heard of you" isn't an argument here as well. If this is just a reaction to his post, take it to PMs and out of the balance discussion forums. User has been warned for this post - Penril.
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Penril
Posts: 4366

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#59 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:28 pm

If you guys continue with this, you will both be banned from the Balance discussion forum. And I don't want to read another "but Archmages!!!!" or "but Wild healing!!!" post as well.

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Azarael
Posts: 5348

Re: Resurrect: Get'n Smarter

Post#60 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:30 pm

The AM discussion will stop. This topic has nothing to do with them.

Let me refocus it. The topic is now about whether Get'n Smarter should be reintroduced, replacing Yer A Weaklin', to give Shaman the missing third DoT more than anything else. Any objections should be delivered based on analysis of the internal balance of Shaman and the inter-healer balance of Destruction, NOT on anything to do with AM, and they should be delivered from the base of the experimental mode for Shaman, not AoR Shaman.

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