Recent Topics

Ads

[Partly implimented] BG: KD problem

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
User avatar
Lektroluv
Suspended
Posts: 243

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#31 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:
Lektroluv wrote:
GodlessCrom wrote:Knockdown or knockback? Away with ye! is 10 sec cd. Don't play bg, so dunno if they do the same.

The knowback's cooldown on Blackguard is 20 seconds, too much time in my opinion... if Ironbreaker one is only 10 seconds, the Blackguard one could use some cooldown reduction.
as info there was a thread for that alredy, still waiting for a decision/client controll maybe i dont know.

If ironbreaker punt ability is 10 seconds cooldown only, and Blackguard punt is 20 seconds cooldown instead, i don't see any reason on why a posible revamp on Blade of ruin into a knowdown should be 20 seconds cooldown too, like Ironbreaker one.

Why not make it like this?

Ironbreaker Knowback 10 seconds cooldown VS Blackguard knowback 20 seconds cooldown

Ironbreaker Knowdown 20 seconds cooldown VS Blackguard revamped version of Blade of ruin Knowdown 10 seconds cooldown ability


Each tank, will have one ability with faster cooldown, each tank will have one specialization on each side.

We are not discussing any changes to IBs in this thread - Penril

Ads
User avatar
Morf
Posts: 1247

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#32 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:28 pm

Lektroluv wrote:

The 6 point spot is very justified, when you notice Blackguard can't achieve area snare and self heal in same path than ironbreaker does, aka Ironbreaker can achieve a very good build in only 2 paths (Damage dealing from first path, CC from area snare and self healing supervivence from last one)

Actually the only reason because the Blackguard knowdown is 5 seconds is because it is based on hate, aka the posibility of beign at 70-80 hate mark is very, very, very hight, looking at the amount of hate is continiusly spending the class.
If your suggestion is make this new knowdown based on hate like old one the timer should be 5 seconds too, if you gonna base the KD on hate and making it a very possible 2 seconds only, people will just spend the point in other ability.

Sorry the excuse about ironbreaker having the KD on 10 points slot, is quite hilarious when the blackguard himself is forced to spend 10 points alone in a central path and ironbreaker have it on third one.

Effective builds in 2 paths instead of 3 paths >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KD ability in 6 points mark instead of 10 one.


I think we are talking about a little blackguard buff, if that is the only thing which people gonna offer to the more gimp tank in game, compared to other classes buffs, this is not a buff it is a blehhhh boring retouch of an ability which doesn't change anything.

My suggestion is:

3 seconds KD withouth any requeriment but hate (no block,no parry,no disrupt)
15 hate cost
30 ap cost
20 sec cooldwon
Maintain the damage DoT amount during 8 seconds
Your opinions seem fairly biased imo, you cant just focus on negative bg stuff and positive ib stuff, you need to look at all aspects for both and also take into consideration realm wide balance when looking to change stuff and in all honesty i would question your knowledge given how you repeatably get stuff wrong when discussing skills and the like.

No doubt bg has its issues but to the degree some make out, no way, in a proper group environment 2h dps bg can be very nasty and out dps an ib by a long way while also bringing great debuffs, chosen + blorc will likely always be the better option but the same can be said with regards to ib and the more favoured sm + kotbs setup.

Also u really suggesting a hate based 2h kd that has a 5 second duration ? come on now, be sensible.
Last edited by Morf on Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Morfee - Shaman / Mynnos - Kotbs / Grubod - Black Orc / Snubz - Squig Herder

User avatar
GodlessCrom
Suspended
Posts: 1297

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#33 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:30 pm

Well bg kb does hit your further a high hate than ib. Granted, ib is more reliable because it has no mechanic requirement.

Either way, I think the kds should have the same cd, and the same dmg imo. Literally mirror cave in onto blade of ruin exactly as is.

I'm boring and think class mirrors should actually mirror each other for the sake of balance but tjats just me :p
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

User avatar
Lektroluv
Suspended
Posts: 243

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#34 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Morf wrote:
Lektroluv wrote:

The 6 point spot is very justified, when you notice Blackguard can't achieve area snare and self heal in same path than ironbreaker does, aka Ironbreaker can achieve a very good build in only 2 paths (Damage dealing from first path, CC from area snare and self healing supervivence from last one)

Actually the only reason because the Blackguard knowdown is 5 seconds is because it is based on hate, aka the posibility of beign at 70-80 hate mark is very, very, very hight, looking at the amount of hate is continiusly spending the class.
If your suggestion is make this new knowdown based on hate like old one the timer should be 5 seconds too, if you gonna base the KD on hate and making it a very possible 2 seconds only, people will just spend the point in other ability.

Sorry the excuse about ironbreaker having the KD on 10 points slot, is quite hilarious when the blackguard himself is forced to spend 10 points alone in a central path and ironbreaker have it on third one.

Effective builds in 2 paths instead of 3 paths >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KD ability in 6 points mark instead of 10 one.


I think we are talking about a little blackguard buff, if that is the only thing which people gonna offer to the more gimp tank in game, compared to other classes buffs, this is not a buff it is a blehhhh boring retouch of an ability which doesn't change anything.

My suggestion is:

3 seconds KD withouth any requeriment but hate cost and ap cost (no block,no parry,no disrupt)
15 hate cost
30 ap cost
20 sec cooldwon
Maintain the damage DoT amount during 8 seconds
Your opinions seem fairly biased imo, you cant just focus on negative bg stuff and positive ib stuff, you need to look at all aspects for both and also take into consideration realm wide balance when looking to change stuff and in all honesty i would question your knowledge given how you repeatably get stuff wrong when discussing skills and the like.

No doubt bg has its issues but to the degree some make out, no way, in a proper group environment 2h dps bg can be very nasty and out dps an ib by a long way while also bringing great debuffs, chosen + blorc will likely always be the better option but the same can be said with regards to ib and the more favoured sm + kotbs setup.

Also u really suggesting a hate based 2h kd that has a 5 second duration ? come on now, be sensible.
My suggestion is this one reread the post, not the 5 seconds one unless someone like you wanna base it on hate mechanic:

3 seconds KD withouth any requeriment but hate cost and ap cost (no block,no parry,no disrupt)
15 hate cost
30 ap cost
20 sec cooldown
Maintain the damage DoT amount during 8 seconds

That suggestion is biased??? lol
Last edited by Lektroluv on Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Lektroluv
Suspended
Posts: 243

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#35 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:39 pm

GodlessCrom wrote:Well bg kb does hit your further a high hate than ib. Granted, ib is more reliable because it has no mechanic requirement.

Either way, I think the kds should have the same cd, and the same dmg imo. Literally mirror cave in onto blade of ruin exactly as is.

I'm boring and think class mirrors should actually mirror each other for the sake of balance but tjats just me :p

The problem with Blackguard Knowback is require 90 hate for make the real punt and it is not available since first moment of the fight, if you use it after spend a simply absorv shield which cost 15 hate, the punt turns into a normal one.

While sometimes it is nice (yeah that moment when it works is what people remember, not the another 20 times it did not)
Other times is much worse and at fight's starts directly it is not there.

The 20 seconds cooldown and the hate requeriment make it non reliable in many situations... sure it is nice when works, but works badly most of the times.

User avatar
GodlessCrom
Suspended
Posts: 1297

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#36 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:42 pm

I agree, I think ib kb is better. But perhaps a different thread for that.
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

7rere7
Posts: 166

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#37 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:48 pm

Path of Malice has filled with fury putting the kd with blade of ruin dot damage without conditions is to much for that path.
Spiteful slam,kd should have no block condition ,now it can be used in all three paths.

if blade or ruin was put to 9 points on Malice ,remove parry & block conditions ,that path should be fine.

Filled with Fury is hurting the other two paths on critt ,the IB sweet revenge is not on any pathl. Should be the same for BlackGuard.
Spoiler:
Remove Iron breaker's 50% auto attack speed from "stubborn as stone".
Not discussing IB's - Penril

Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#38 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:51 pm

My hatred is already at 80. If I read "IB/Ironbreaker" once more, get ready to be superpunted out of this thread.

Ads
User avatar
Koha
Posts: 178

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#39 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:14 pm

TenTonHammer wrote:
Koha wrote:I do agree with OP and would incline for the following changes :

Blade of Ruin : 2H required, 3sec CD, hate cost and damage maintained
Spitefull Slam : Shield required + require parry or block

That way 2H BG would catch up with other tanks in terms of CC.
SnB BG will also have a more reliable CC.
We can't have SS pric on parry for the same reason that BoR KD proc on parry

Giving either party access to x2 KDs is broken
You're right and forgot to I add that I would remove the parry riquerment on BoR, so BG would have one KD for 2H and one for SnB like the IB. Having 2 KD would be too much indeed
MA Kirth BG Melnibone SH Kikass
WH Merci SM Kohagen SL Koagul

User avatar
Teefz
Posts: 98

Re: Blade of Ruin modified into a Cave In mirrior

Post#40 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:48 pm

Seeing as Blade of Ruin is completely useless and not even worth a spec point, it would make sense to try out some experimental changes involving Blade of Ruin being mirrored to Cave-In. By mirror, I mean that it should improve dmg with hate, it should require a great weapon and it should be a 3cd KD with no reactionary requirement. The issue with it being a 5 point skill could easily be solved by swapping Enraged Beating with Blade of Ruin. Swapping Enraged Beating wouldn't change much anyway and is one of those skills that should imho be reworked to an ability that affects the person you got Dark Protector on. Not necessarily mirrored to Ancestor's Fury, but the point being giving Black Guard more group utility.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests