Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.

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Manatikik
Posts: 407

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#21 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:08 pm

Penril wrote:
Manatikik wrote: The only issue with that is, like anarchypark said, it inadvertently hurts Skirmish SW's who swap into Assault to pop Acid Arrow and use the double armor while getting pressured.
You can swap to Scout for Acid Arrow.
Yes but as a Skirmish SW then all you're capable of doing is apply DoT's and GA (which I do when I feel like I need to) whereas you can use Acid Arrow from Assault and immediately follow up with SFA (with +8% armor pen from the Assault buff) and take more pressure from melee (the double armor + detaunt makes most pressure from MDPS Pug's laughable). But as dan said Assault is primarily for Melee (or close combat) so there should/could be a downside for using Assault as a Skirmish SW besides not having access to Takedown and Eye Shot (though anyone who plays just in one Stance is a non-factor in balance discussion I'd assume).
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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#22 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:42 pm

Manatikik wrote:
@Lefze please find one place in this thread where I say i use MA in Assault, let alone insist on using it.
Which is why I put in the part about other builds in the post. Why bring up MA in a thread abou assault in the first place?
Rip Phalanx

Penril
Posts: 4366

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#23 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 am

Update- Points to be discussed after talking with the devs.

SW - Assault Stance

Dodge strikethrough will now convert to parry strikethrough
Gifts +10% parry to the player but reduces dodge by -10%
Melee attacks have a 25% chance to increase Autoattack speed by 25% for 5s


Discuss.

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Toldavf
Posts: 1569

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#24 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:06 am

Penril wrote:Update- Points to be discussed after talking with the devs.

SW - Assault Stance

Dodge strikethrough will now convert to parry strikethrough
Gifts +10% parry to the player but reduces dodge by -10%
Melee attacks have a 25% chance to increase Autoattack speed by 25% for 5s


Discuss.
All of that should be ok so long as the second you leave assault stance you loose all benefits, including any procs that are currently up.
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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#25 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:36 am

Penril wrote:Update- Points to be discussed after talking with the devs.

SW - Assault Stance

Dodge strikethrough will now convert to parry strikethrough
Gifts +10% parry to the player but reduces dodge by -10%
Melee attacks have a 25% chance to increase Autoattack speed by 25% for 5s


Discuss.
Good job on that, never expected you would actually implement both the strikethrough AND the parry bonus, but on paper this should be a big step in the right direction.

Not at home so can't test the auto-attack bonus atm, but a bit worried it's gonna be overperforming a bit. Will test later with conq +AA haste and possibly the 2-piece +AA haste bonus from tome jewels to see how well it can potentially perform. Anyways, overall looks really good.
Rip Phalanx

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Manatikik
Posts: 407

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#26 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:26 am

lefze wrote:
Penril wrote:Update- Points to be discussed after talking with the devs.

SW - Assault Stance

Dodge strikethrough will now convert to parry strikethrough
Gifts +10% parry to the player but reduces dodge by -10%
Melee attacks have a 25% chance to increase Autoattack speed by 25% for 5s


Discuss.
Good job on that, never expected you would actually implement both the strikethrough AND the parry bonus, but on paper this should be a big step in the right direction.

Not at home so can't test the auto-attack bonus atm, but a bit worried it's gonna be overperforming a bit. Will test later with conq +AA haste and possibly the 2-piece +AA haste bonus from tome jewels to see how well it can potentially perform. Anyways, overall looks really good.
1h weapon AA damage isn't that strong, plus with the bow you have to stand still in Assault to AA, so while it will improve DPS output I can't imagine it could ever overperform.
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Leifiel - WL 40/5x
Bragging - KotBS 40/4x
Elamyr - SM 40/4x

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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#27 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:39 am

Manatikik wrote:
lefze wrote:
Penril wrote:Update- Points to be discussed after talking with the devs.

SW - Assault Stance

Dodge strikethrough will now convert to parry strikethrough
Gifts +10% parry to the player but reduces dodge by -10%
Melee attacks have a 25% chance to increase Autoattack speed by 25% for 5s


Discuss.
Good job on that, never expected you would actually implement both the strikethrough AND the parry bonus, but on paper this should be a big step in the right direction.

Not at home so can't test the auto-attack bonus atm, but a bit worried it's gonna be overperforming a bit. Will test later with conq +AA haste and possibly the 2-piece +AA haste bonus from tome jewels to see how well it can potentially perform. Anyways, overall looks really good.
1h weapon AA damage isn't that strong, plus with the bow you have to stand still in Assault to AA, so while it will improve DPS output I can't imagine it could ever overperform.
Well, boosting AA speed by the degree that is currently possible would give quite decent speeds, so dps from autos will go up by a relatively huge margin if built for. And even though proccs have been nerfed pretty hard, being able to reach roughly 50% +AA haste is gonna give a lot more procs than before and possibly more than is healthy for the class, but dunno, will have to fiddle around with it.
Rip Phalanx

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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#28 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:28 pm

lefze wrote:
Manatikik wrote:
lefze wrote:
Good job on that, never expected you would actually implement both the strikethrough AND the parry bonus, but on paper this should be a big step in the right direction.

Not at home so can't test the auto-attack bonus atm, but a bit worried it's gonna be overperforming a bit. Will test later with conq +AA haste and possibly the 2-piece +AA haste bonus from tome jewels to see how well it can potentially perform. Anyways, overall looks really good.
1h weapon AA damage isn't that strong, plus with the bow you have to stand still in Assault to AA, so while it will improve DPS output I can't imagine it could ever overperform.
Well, boosting AA speed by the degree that is currently possible would give quite decent speeds, so dps from autos will go up by a relatively huge margin if built for. And even though proccs have been nerfed pretty hard, being able to reach roughly 50% +AA haste is gonna give a lot more procs than before and possibly more than is healthy for the class, but dunno, will have to fiddle around with it.
It is a melee AA speed and it is not possible to attack there for a long time. You will be killed faster than will be able to feel any overperformance especially in ORvR (hello dodge debuff and tons of squigs which are quite superior)
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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#29 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:02 pm

daniilpb wrote:
lefze wrote:
Manatikik wrote:
1h weapon AA damage isn't that strong, plus with the bow you have to stand still in Assault to AA, so while it will improve DPS output I can't imagine it could ever overperform.
Well, boosting AA speed by the degree that is currently possible would give quite decent speeds, so dps from autos will go up by a relatively huge margin if built for. And even though proccs have been nerfed pretty hard, being able to reach roughly 50% +AA haste is gonna give a lot more procs than before and possibly more than is healthy for the class, but dunno, will have to fiddle around with it.
It is a melee AA speed and it is not possible to attack there for a long time. You will be killed faster than will be able to feel any overperformance especially in ORvR (hello dodge debuff and tons of squigs which are quite superior)
The whole concern isn't based in what you can expect in a normal zergfest, more the POTENTIAL overperformance in general, and especially in a bit smaller scale fights than 24v24. Already you have certain compositions+builds etc. that have the ability to perform really well in some cases, and the AA buff can put these builds a bit over the top in non-zerg environements.

And here also you have the issue of M2, which makes any small change a potentially huge buff. And of course you can argue that any decent pug would have a hard time capitalizing on the change, but not every player on the server is playing in casual parties etc.

But still haven't tested it, pointless to argue over something that was changed today and no one has had a real chance at playing around with yet.
Rip Phalanx

Penril
Posts: 4366

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#30 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:52 pm

Correct. Theorycrafting is over; go out there, test these changes, then come back with your feedback.

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