Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1440

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#51 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:52 pm

Another new idea;
what if Taunt caused the victim to suffer from debuff that decreases rate of Disrupt by say 10-15%?
It doesn't directly cause magical casters to become better by themselves, but if playing together in proper setups/teams, the tanks will be helping them to become a bigger threat.
It's easier "broad" solution than giving 2-4 classes ways to lower disrupt, and forcing magical casters to be with just those specific classes in order to be able to more efficient.

Taunt is also something that is not instantly cleansed, but can be get rid of relatively easy. However, skilled Taunt rotations from 2 tanks allow the premades target to be more likely hit by magical casters.

It doesn't instantly guarantee a buff to WB bombing, because how quickly Taunt can vanish when doing AoE, and with tanks busy doing other things amidst warband gameplay. And if you have 8 tanks in WB, they cannot realistically debuff the whole enemy warband, but can help with doing precision debuffing at important enemy targets.
Again, it doesn't favour one side more than the other, since tanks on both sides have Taunt.
And it doesn't just buff one magical caster, but helps all of them to do damage provided they play with decent group and skilled tanks.

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Penril
Posts: 4366

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#52 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:59 pm

I like the direction this thread is taking. Sorc/BWs are still awesome for killing pugs, but if you want to be effective against premades then maybe you should rely more on your own premade. That Taunt buff is a nice example.

There are a few skills like Furious Howl, Drop da Basha, Numbing Strike, Pierce Defenses, Warding Strike, etc. that could maybe be changed to also affect Disrupt. So a Sorc/BW premade could spec around Disrupt debuffs. This would reward preparation, group-play and is imho much more interesting than just "give staff +10 Disrupt strikethrough".

Coma
Posts: 167

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#53 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:13 pm

Penril wrote:
There are a few skills like Furious Howl, Drop da Basha, Numbing Strike, Pierce Defenses, Warding Strike, etc. that could maybe be changed to also affect Disrupt. So a Sorc/BW premade could spec around Disrupt debuffs. This would reward preparation, group-play and is imho much more interesting than just "give staff +10 Disrupt strikethrough".
while I do agree that it would make group composition and class iteraction more interesting... I still go back to one point... why do Sorc/BW and Magus (people often forget but magus is also a magical dps...) do need other classes to get their defense reduction while other classes got one way to do that on their own?

IMHO... giving Magical DPS some way to reduce disrupt on their own is necessary... than giving it to other classes too can be seen as promoting group play after all now too you can have Kots and a SW debuffing 25% of parry/dodge/block, and 10% dirupt or BG + SH debuff 25%block and parry, 15% dodge and 0% dirupt.. they debuff for THEMSELF and for allies... but they are among those that benefit from it in the fisrt place
Last edited by Coma on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nealio
Posts: 30

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#54 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:17 pm

Nameless wrote:Just do not add uncleansable dots, the feeling that u cannot do anything is just wrong approach

Much like when the WH pops behind the Sorc... that same feeling that you cannot do anything and it's just wrong. This proposal actually gives players on the field a reason to fear Sorcs/BW's and go after them on a strategic level instead of simply another quick kill. Giving them a strategic importance in the field shuffles the focus during attacks away from healers and in turn makes strategic decisions necessary rather than simply zerging healers then wiping the field of tanks/mdps afterwards.
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Jbz
Posts: 47

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#55 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:18 pm

Penril wrote:I like the direction this thread is taking. Sorc/BWs are still awesome for killing pugs, but if you want to be effective against premades then maybe you should rely more on your own premade. That Taunt buff is a nice example.

There are a few skills like Furious Howl, Drop da Basha, Numbing Strike, Pierce Defenses, Warding Strike, etc. that could maybe be changed to also affect Disrupt. So a Sorc/BW premade could spec around Disrupt debuffs. This would reward preparation, group-play and is imho much more interesting than just "give staff +10 Disrupt strikethrough".
Tieing it into the intended offensive mechanics of healers would be interesting too. Would really allow for more skilled game play in this game.

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Parkus
Posts: 26

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#56 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:19 am

I really like this idea! I was thinking along the same lines but the best idea I could come up with was adding the strike through to an aura debuff. The fault in my idea is that it would only be viable for the Chosen / KOTBS groups as they are the only tanks with auras. The Taunt idea is very good as that works with all tanks.

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Bozzax
Posts: 1883

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#57 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:44 am

So the classes (pure dps casters) that are most dependant on others should be made even less solo friendly?
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Valfaros
Posts: 205

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#58 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:24 am

I think option 3 (making them a fast ticking dot) would be an option to think about, together with a general dot overhaul across the board. Dots are in most cases just not a threat in this game. I think this shouln't be the case. Some classes have dot trait lines (e.g. magus) would be nice if they were more useful.

Option 2:
I don't really see why burst dots should be treated differently then regular ones. Yes there is now addidonal counterplay (e.g. by hold the line when they run out) but the same applies to regular dots but since they already are ignorable because of grp heal people just don't mind doing it. So why should something get buffed which already works better then regular dots.

Option 4:
A fear me I go berserk mode button. Together with moral nicely on the same timer heh? While this sounds like fun to use if other classes don't have excess to such a thing this is just a bad idea.

Furthermore I wouldn't recommend adding additional group reliant effects. This game already benefits from correct group setups greatly. Do we really want to expand the gap further. Therefore making it even more difficult to compete with off meta setups?

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Aceboltz
Posts: 215

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#59 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:06 am

I cann't say for BW but there's a lot of possibilities to improve sorcerer ST by improving or changing some really bad and useless abilities sorc has.
-obsessive focus (borderline useless, could it be used as a disrupt debuff?)
-shades of death (the 13 pts of the single target tree is totally useless)
-echo of power (really weak compared to burn through but does not take a tactic slot: a bad status quo where sorc is left with a worst tool to deal with disrupts)
-darkstar cloak (is this morale a bad joke from mythic devs?)

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Bozzax
Posts: 1883

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#60 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:20 am

Here are relevant debuffs and strikethrough
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Here are relevant undefefendables
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Some observations
1. There is obviously a realm imbalance
2. Physical rdps should be OK-ish if they spec for PD (SW, Engie, SH)
3. Dps AM could actually come out stronger then before because of CW removal and lots of strikethrough
4. BWs are borked. I'd wager Burn through and Staggering Impact makes BW less borked then other magical rdps
5. Biggest losers are dest magical rdps, Dps Shaman, Sorc
6. Dont know how DPS RPs and Magus fares but I suspect their undef aren't good enough to keep them happy
Last edited by Bozzax on Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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