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Slayer/Choppa Detaunts

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#21 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Toldavf wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:57 pm
Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:12 pm I agree on panzeerkasper regarding the rage +detaunt problem. Slayer have an easy life woth rampage here. I think any rowork should keep this in mind.

Detaunt should probably drop meccanic and scale with it aswell or anyway still drop rage.

Since meccanic the min duration should be 10 sec. Btw keep tbe update time 50%.
10 seconds is to long, its the entire duration of a champions challenge, detaunt should provide a window of relative safety when a team member is displaced, the window should not be large enough that the displaced player can just hobble back into guard range.

Basically if a team co-ordinates some good CC against the enemy team its a bad mechanic to have it all negated by a detaunt.
I dont get your point slayer/chop are the easier to kill among all dps ( no escape skill, no def stuff plus the presence of a dmg taker increase which autobuild....) They costantly need guard vs wl/mara which can stay costantly out of it hence dataunt last 5 sec.
Minus than 10 sec with less than a 50% update time is an ujistified nerf imo.
Last edited by Tesq on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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tionblack
Posts: 302

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#22 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:28 pm

I must say DETAUNT Dropping rage would a real nice work, i vote for this very very good idea.
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#23 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:45 pm

Hm... The 7 seconds time might be the sweet spot.
SL/CH pop a detaunt if you things go really, really bad. 5 seconds in most of the encounters is not enough to even get 20ft away from the danger zone, as most likely you'll be snared. If someone would think, that there would be enough time to set a root break, gcd, pop detaunt, gcd, and then do a charge away - then you'll have a dead rage user.

Summarize: 7s time, 15-20s cd, drop rage / or set SL/CH back to yellow. Those are the sweet spots.
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Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#24 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am

Reesh wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:45 pm Hm... The 7 seconds time might be the sweet spot.
SL/CH pop a detaunt if you things go really, really bad. 5 seconds in most of the encounters is not enough to even get 20ft away from the danger zone, as most likely you'll be snared. If someone would think, that there would be enough time to set a root break, gcd, pop detaunt, gcd, and then do a charge away - then you'll have a dead rage user.

Summarize: 7s time, 15-20s cd, drop rage / or set SL/CH back to yellow. Those are the sweet spots.
Why would you break root then detaunt?

Look if your guard slips for what ever reason you detaunt first vs a melee train or drop rage first vs range. If you have an even amount of snare (most groups are running some form of aoe snare) in your comps this will carry you away shortly add in charge and you will be away rapidly.

This is all assuming of course their is no guard swap coming. 5 seconds should be more than enough time for that really.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#25 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:04 am

Toldavf wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am
Reesh wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:45 pm Hm... The 7 seconds time might be the sweet spot.
SL/CH pop a detaunt if you things go really, really bad. 5 seconds in most of the encounters is not enough to even get 20ft away from the danger zone, as most likely you'll be snared. If someone would think, that there would be enough time to set a root break, gcd, pop detaunt, gcd, and then do a charge away - then you'll have a dead rage user.

Summarize: 7s time, 15-20s cd, drop rage / or set SL/CH back to yellow. Those are the sweet spots.
Why would you break root then detaunt?

Look if your guard slips for what ever reason you detaunt first vs a melee train or drop rage first vs range. If you have an even amount of snare (most groups are running some form of aoe snare) in your comps this will carry you away shortly add in charge and you will be away rapidly.

This is all assuming of course their is no guard swap coming. 5 seconds should be more than enough time for that really.
5 sec ia not enought for a class that in 5 sec can go into the next level of meccanic, if you add a KD that's a pretty harsh sich you can be potentially kd and go into rage just after it. The afterwards of the detaunt also help ya keep you alive is important that when you get up you can benefith thenmlst of that detaunt; 10 sec is min for chopp / slayer as much 5 sec is max for wl/mara. They are diff classes with diff meccanics and diff needs.
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Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#26 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:02 am

Tesq wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:04 am
Toldavf wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am
Reesh wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:45 pm Hm... The 7 seconds time might be the sweet spot.
SL/CH pop a detaunt if you things go really, really bad. 5 seconds in most of the encounters is not enough to even get 20ft away from the danger zone, as most likely you'll be snared. If someone would think, that there would be enough time to set a root break, gcd, pop detaunt, gcd, and then do a charge away - then you'll have a dead rage user.

Summarize: 7s time, 15-20s cd, drop rage / or set SL/CH back to yellow. Those are the sweet spots.
Why would you break root then detaunt?

Look if your guard slips for what ever reason you detaunt first vs a melee train or drop rage first vs range. If you have an even amount of snare (most groups are running some form of aoe snare) in your comps this will carry you away shortly add in charge and you will be away rapidly.

This is all assuming of course their is no guard swap coming. 5 seconds should be more than enough time for that really.
5 sec ia not enought for a class that in 5 sec can go into the next level of meccanic, if you add a KD that's a pretty harsh sich you can be potentially kd and go into rage just after it. The afterwards of the detaunt also help ya keep you alive is important that when you get up you can benefith thenmlst of that detaunt; 10 sec is min for chopp / slayer as much 5 sec is max for wl/mara. They are diff classes with diff meccanics and diff needs.
You arent providing any reason why a guard swap should take this long, detaunt on mdps is just an extender of life not a skill that will let you free tank in certain builds.

If you are kd'ed and in danger of dieing I would argue that there is enough counterplay available from a group to prevent that death, and what ever they decide to use it should not take 10 seconds to deploy.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#27 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:14 am

Toldavf wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:02 am
Tesq wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:04 am
Toldavf wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am

Why would you break root then detaunt?

Look if your guard slips for what ever reason you detaunt first vs a melee train or drop rage first vs range. If you have an even amount of snare (most groups are running some form of aoe snare) in your comps this will carry you away shortly add in charge and you will be away rapidly.

This is all assuming of course their is no guard swap coming. 5 seconds should be more than enough time for that really.
5 sec ia not enought for a class that in 5 sec can go into the next level of meccanic, if you add a KD that's a pretty harsh sich you can be potentially kd and go into rage just after it. The afterwards of the detaunt also help ya keep you alive is important that when you get up you can benefith thenmlst of that detaunt; 10 sec is min for chopp / slayer as much 5 sec is max for wl/mara. They are diff classes with diff meccanics and diff needs.
You arent providing any reason why a guard swap should take this long, detaunt on mdps is just an extender of life not a skill that will let you free tank in certain builds.

If you are kd'ed and in danger of dieing I would argue that there is enough counterplay available from a group to prevent that death, and what ever they decide to use it should not take 10 seconds to deploy.
There is no guard swap you can kill a choppa/slayer pretty much under guard if you know what you are doing, but anyway the longer detaunt serve the purpose for choppa /slayer to run away with out his tank, after focus +kd+ focus you get up, drop rage (which you need to do and is a wasting time compared to other mdps) then detaunt and run with flee/charge.

If you have a detaunt lasting 10 sec you can ran past your tank exing from los/range of anythimg while still have detaunt ppl. If you dont you must stay guard focussed hopping that the guard will be sufficient to keep ya alive. Until now all nornal exept the fact that when got kd you or just after it you gone berserk taking more dmg compared to ther classes, which mean the average dmg is higher so you need an avarage longer detaunt.


And this involve all the common punt/guard swap stuff. You are less durable than a mara/wl that's the point you will never be ae to play exatly as them. You need to get away even in full perfect party sometimes. 5 sec is too low. I dont really see the difficulty to see the difference between the 2 pairing wl/mara chpp/slay.... In survability. This is just a pretty normal conseguence of their diff capacity insubstain enemy dmg.
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Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#28 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:06 am

Tesq wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:14 am
Toldavf wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:02 am
Tesq wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:04 am

5 sec ia not enought for a class that in 5 sec can go into the next level of meccanic, if you add a KD that's a pretty harsh sich you can be potentially kd and go into rage just after it. The afterwards of the detaunt also help ya keep you alive is important that when you get up you can benefith thenmlst of that detaunt; 10 sec is min for chopp / slayer as much 5 sec is max for wl/mara. They are diff classes with diff meccanics and diff needs.
You arent providing any reason why a guard swap should take this long, detaunt on mdps is just an extender of life not a skill that will let you free tank in certain builds.

If you are kd'ed and in danger of dieing I would argue that there is enough counterplay available from a group to prevent that death, and what ever they decide to use it should not take 10 seconds to deploy.
There is no guard swap you can kill a choppa/slayer pretty much under guard if you know what you are doing, but anyway the longer detaunt serve the purpose for choppa /slayer to run away with out his tank, after focus +kd+ focus you get up, drop rage (which you need to do and is a wasting time compared to other mdps) then detaunt and run with flee/charge.

If you have a detaunt lasting 10 sec you can ran past your tank exing from los/range of anythimg while still have detaunt ppl. If you dont you must stay guard focussed hopping that the guard will be sufficient to keep ya alive. Until now all nornal exept the fact that when got kd you or just after it you gone berserk taking more dmg compared to ther classes, which mean the average dmg is higher so you need an avarage longer detaunt.


And this involve all the common punt/guard swap stuff. You are less durable than a mara/wl that's the point you will never be ae to play exatly as them. You need to get away even in full perfect party sometimes. 5 sec is too low. I dont really see the difficulty to see the difference between the 2 pairing wl/mara chpp/slay.... In survability. This is just a pretty normal conseguence of their diff capacity.
If you are killing a target through guard detaunt is irrelevant it won't save him, it's literally a damage reduction of the same size.

So you run away from your enemies, breaking your own guard range and carrying yourself out of melee range, I dont see why you need any form of detaunt at that point.

5 seconds is easily more than enough time, it's at least 3 gcd under the worst situations you need 2 to remove yourself from a melee train OR one to increase your mitigation if that will be sufficient.

For me this isn't about other classes this is about how slayers/choppers dps output stacks up against their suitability and how you balance the class with the best dps having such a good detaunt as some people propose.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

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Jinxypie
Posts: 328

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#29 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Since most slayers/choppas dont have the luxury of perma guard everytime they decide to play their toy, the 1gcd detaunt/rage drop could be nice solo queue touch for squishiest melees around.
DoK RR80+, Chosen RR80+, Choppa RR70+, SH RR75+ WP RR65+

richard1032
Posts: 42

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#30 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:28 pm

Spoiler:
I think the detaunt should be double in length, half cool down, drops rage, gives 100% damage buff, gives 100% aa buff, give immunity to snares, change your cloak to a red colour and temporarily add a rune in the shape of an S on your chest.

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