[AM] M1 Isha's Ward

[Ugle]

Just make it unusuable while using divine fury and everyone but soloroam dps AMs (Rioz and Littles) are happy.

That doesn't solve the issue of it being a morale you can get 100% uptime out of

The percieved issue here is really not an issue. If you're in a situation with a 100% uptime of this M1 then you've had no use of it an hence what does it matter. Not once on my rr60 AM this situation have happened, so this is a theoretical problem t best. Also ppl saying 3,6k absorb lasts 4 - 5 sec vs a melee train? Hitting with wet napkins then I reckon?

[Scrilian]

Not much can I add to the discussion, that wasn't said already.

My take on it is that pressing anything but M2 FM is a total waste for healing AM as far as anything competitive is concerned. As for DPS AMs it's a handy tool to compensate for the lack of mobility/defense options.

I'm not sure that reducing duration by half would achieve anything but a direct nerf to an already not-viable for competitive WBs/6v6 DPS AMs.
Then how about 30sec duration and 20% movement speed while it's active? And when your Willpower is higher than Intellect - make it castable on allies w/o speed boost.

[Sulorie]

He is correct that a 60s duration with a 60s cooldown is too much for a morale 1.

You either decide to go full healing with heal M1 or you want to be more defensive with a M1 absorb buffer for sudden high damage hits. To work as a buffer it has to be pre-applied. You don't cast morale absorbs preemptively with 20sec duration.

How is this an issue, when M1 roots exist, which can only be removed my M2 FM?

[adamthelc]

Spoiler:

Thats a pretty bad misrepresentation of Divine Protection. Its true that it has limitations Isha's Ward does not, but it also can theoretically absorb 27k. Which is a bit more than 3600.

In any case the duration does seem to be a little out of wack with choppa/KotBS. I think the reason for it is the fact that its on a healer, more specifically an AM. IMO the only reason its worth taking is because of the long duration.

AM just has too many things that perform a similar role. A heal for half as much that can be used for half as much on anyone and ignores HD, FM and the much better M3. Not to mention you have SoS if you really need to prebubble.

Choppas and Knights with a similar morale is very different even if its similar on paper.

In my mind the reason to slot it is because you can use it when you arent going to need a morale soon. If the M1 must be brought in line I would say increase the duration on Choppa and Knights bubble.

Its a strong morale compared to other classes in a vacuum, but I think it would be better to make weak morales better than nerf one thats not really game breaking.

DP m3 could absorp 0 as your team gets blown up by sorcs/magus. And it's an M3. And it has a duration of 10s. So... How did I badly misrepresent it? By saying it's 4500? Obviously the OP and discussion is based on the absorp the AM is receiving.

This is not a buff choppa/KoTBS balance proposal. I specifically didn't mention them in the OP, because they are tank/mdps, and I didn't want that to start. Not every "imbalance" should be handled by Buffing something else. That's how you get crazy power-creep.

SoS has a 9s Duration and 20s CD, so less than 50% uptime.

Every healer has DF M1. Using a core healer morale as an excuse to not balance this one is erroneous logic.

This really isn't the place to discuss crit vs bubbles.

The major issue with this Morale is your ability to cycle it. Until you get attacked you can have 100% uptime. It requires 0 skill or foresight to utilize "properly". Just set it, and spam grp heal, no need to worry. You'll have plenty of time to get your Detaunt off or kite away.

I would like to note, I wrote the OP before Torque made a change to the CD of another over performing Morale. I can't imagine anyone wanting this, but if the 1min timer is considered "sacrosanct" for whatever reason, then increasing the CD would accomplish the goal. Either 1min up 2min CD, or 45s up 90s CD. I wouldn't be for this personally, but to give an alternative change...

Anything else?

Its a group absorb. When comparing morales why would you ignore 5/6 of what it does? There is no logic to that. If you applied that logic to FM and DF you could use then to only heal other people... then their value in this context would be 0?

Anyway the real issue with the abilities is allows you essentially have 2 morales in a small window. But for me that what makes it worth taking and using over other morales.

Even with that you cant really say DF is a bad choice. Its hard for me to think of something as imbalanced and overperforming when its not even the clear-cut winner for an individual class in an individual rank.

[Dabbart]

FM provides immunities and reduced cast time. How you use that is up to you, it’s also an M2. DF is a decent M1. A lot of healers use it. I never said it was bad, I said it’s use wasn’t entirely relevant towards the balancing on Isha’s Ward. Same with FM and DP. Yes, FM can give you a **** load more than 3600 bubble worth. Unless your group/playstyle Doesn’t utilize it, and prefers the bubble... DP is an M3 also. If you have time to gather an M3, then there are other factors to consider.

However, the argument that it’s 60s timer is what makes IW worthy taking is relevant. I disagree with that logic though. Yes, IW on it’s own won’t save you. But IW lets you stand up relatively unscathed from a WE KD, and then you have SoS, bubble pot, health pot x2, detaunts, puddle, and AoE punt. That’s all before you cast a single heal or cleanse.

If you take IW or DF is up to the player. I disagree that a 60s up time is required to make IW worth taking. 20s is a LONG time in this game. IW would still perform exactly as it does now, except that you can’t cycle it every single minute until the enemy attacks you.

AM squishiness is reasoning for 90% of its tools. Cloth armor isn’t an excuse for a morale x2 the timer of anyone else. It might be an argument to increase the value of the bubble, but the duration?

Unless I am misunderstanding the points raised.... please elaborate if there is a different argument for why IW NEEDS to be on 60s timer...

[Dabbart]

Accidental post.

[peterthepan3]

Worth reiterating the first part of my post: all morales will probably be subjected to this scrutiny , so we're not deliberately picking the AM for #kek and banter.

Why is it justified that the morale can maintain almost 100% uptime? Why should it be a Morale 1 for such potency? Is it potent because of the absorb or the long duration, etc. Keep discussions pertinent to OP.

[Aurandilaz]

Worth reiterating the first part of my post: all morales will probably be subjected to this scrutiny , so we're not deliberately picking the AM for #kek and banter.

Why is it justified that the morale can maintain almost 100% uptime? Why should it be a Morale 1 for such potency? Is it potent because of the absorb or the long duration, etc. Keep discussions pertinent to OP.

A) It's ST self absorb shield for a class that walks into battlefield in a nightgown
B) It's a selfish pick, forfeiting Heal M1 and FM M2 which are more in demand for groupplay
C) No, it's not potent for group gameplay nor for warbandgameplay, which is the level of gameplay where balance discussions are aimed at; it might be strong for smallscale but there is no balancing for 1v1 or 3v3 fights. It doesn't matter it if 60 sec or 6 sec, vs WB that thing will melt in 1-2 sec and vs meleetrain it will melt in 3-4 sec.

IMO OP doesn't justify why the moral is an issue for grouped gameplay. AM is squishy as it is.
There exist several other morals that can be rotated for 100% uptime, and there existed more. With 3 Sorcs you can rotate WWS for 20-20-20 uptime and then go again. You used to rotate 2 DoK M4s to counter the massive BW bombs on live. You used to be able to rotate RP Mountain Spirits as well. Over years they have been nerfed quite thoroughly but some longer duration morals that boost survivability for various classes still remain.
DoK didn't have group resis of their own, so they needed M4s. Sorcs were squishy as usual and had noway to reach BW dmg outputs, so instead they had morals they could rotate to help their team take less dmg.
AM being squishy as usual and not being able to reach the levels of armor that fully armor stacking RP can get or fully armoured WP can get, well it needs that extra cushioning to survive but still won't be anywhere as tough to grind down compared to the other 2 healers.
AM being unable to same level of mobility as Shaman, and unable to reach same level of armor as RP/WP - well their only ace in sleeve might be just that 60 sec duration absorb shield, which however rarely gets to last that long in organized gameplay that doesn't involved 1v1 axethrowing contests.

[Dabbart]

I don’t understand your argument at all... it’s a bad M1, that in your opinion shouldn’t even be used in competitive play, but it needs to stay at 60s as an ace in the sleeve to compete on the survivability scale of RP/Wp?

How would lowering the duration to 20s break its use an an ace up the sleeve? It would function exactly as it does now, but require the slightest amount of awareness and timing.

And I don’t give any kind of a **** what used to be, what multiple classes can do in combo, or M4s. We’re discussing this Morale. In the state of game it currently is. This isn’t a history lesson, sorry.

What “plenty” of morales can you cycle 100% uptime on? And if you say “bring x3 of this class” I’m gonna scream....

I use that M1 in premades and WBs all the time. (And after I posted the Op, I got a LOT of hatemail from more than decent players, cause they use it too...) Cause I get focused a lot. It lets me play far more aggressively, as I can push and know that I will have plenty of time to pop my survivals and get back if they do target me. I covered this in the Op and subsequent posts I thought...

[Luuca]

I will not go into the erroneous information and comparisons provided in the initial post as we are not discussing mirror morales nor other classes as quoted by the OP.

I will address the fallacy of 100% uptime.

If the reason for the proposed change is to eliminate the 100% uptime, as to enforce some "skill-based" talent of simply waiting and pressing the M1 once you are feeling pressure as an AM, just before/after the Detaunt, then I submit this is how the M1 works at this time and there is no need for a change to the duration of the M1.

If an AM obtains M1 in combat, and immediately opts to fire it off, for no reason other than he can. In an effort to avert future "possible" damage that "May" hit him, then this can only go one of two ways.

1. He is focused and the damage shield does it's job, allowing him a few precious seconds to make life saving movements/abilities before the shield is gone and he is "naked".

Once the AM is without M1 Shield, he cannot simply avert the next 30+ seconds of M1 cooldown and fire his M1 again. He has to wait for the M1 CD and has to be in morale building combat. This fact is in direct contradiction to the idea of 100% uptime. In order for the M1 shield to have 100% uptime, It must be able to be refreshed after being consumed without waiting on a CD.

2. If the AM obtains M1 in combat, and immediately opts to fire it off, for no reason other than he can, and the AM is never focused, then the M1 comes and goes without any real benefit other than piece of mind. In this instance, it is a wasted morale, and did not affect the balance of the game or any other players. In this example, the wasted M1 has the aforementioned 100% uptime, but has not affected the fight at all. As such, what does it matter?

Any Am who fires M1 without provocation - as a means of self preservation- without the need gives up the M2 Focused Mind which is a much stronger group morale and personal "get out of jail free card" of sorts.

I assert that the premise of the original argument is moot. Since using the M1 with 100% uptime, i.e. cycling M1 without ever actually using any of the shield, does not help the group or faction at all, its effective length is not imbalanced, and is not an advantage over the opposition.

If used as a "Oh Crap" button, it is being used as intended and the 3600 damage absorb is spent within 3-4 seconds of being focused by competent DpS. The fact that you have 60 seconds of possible coverage does not mean you have 100% uptime. In fact, as an AM I can testify that it does not provide any undue advantage against the NA destro 6-man scene nor the PuG warbands.

In conclusion, the notion of theoretical 100% uptime assumes the shield is not being consumed and simply cycling another M1 to continue coverage. This has been disproven by the fact that using the M1 in this fashion provides no additional benefit to the player or the team. Only peace of mind for the caster. As such, the premise of the original post is false and the ability does not need to have it's effective time reduced.