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[Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

[Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#1 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:48 pm

This proposed change pertains to the Runepriest's Concussive Runes tactic, which is located at 7-pts Grimnir. You are cordially invited to give your feedback on these proposed changes, and to share your thoughts.

For information on how to structure your feedback, please refer to this thread prior to giving your feedback. It is imperative that you structure your feedback as per the given structure in the aforementioned link.


It is imperative that you check out Step Two of this thread for rules and guidelines on giving feedback.

CLOSE DATE: 31st OCTOBER @ 20.00 ALTDORF



Note: If you do not adhere to the structure that is required, your post will be subject to moderation, and possible deletion (should you continue to do so).



Proposed Change One
  • Concussive Runes' Morale Drain removed
  • On critical direct attack, your target suffers a unique armor debuff for 5 seconds
  • Tooltip: Critical attacks place a debuff on your target, reducing their armor by X for 5 seconds
  • We propose taking armor debuff value from Sweeping Disgorgement (Zealot's 3-pt tactic in Dark Rites tree), and similarly making the RP variant a unique (stacking) debuff
  • Placement of tactic remains at 7-pts Grimnir

Proposed Change Two
  • Concussive Runes' Morale Drain removed
  • Mirrored from Zealot's Sweeping Disgorgement: your Rune of Cleaving ability will now also give an armor debuff to all targets affected
  • Tooltip: Your Rune of Cleaving will now additionally debuff the armor of all targets affected by X
  • We propose taking armor debuff value from Sweeping Disgorgement (Zealot's 3-pt tactic in Dark Rites tree), and similarly making the RP variant a unique (stacking) debuff
  • Placement of tactic remains at 7-pts Grimnir
Reasoning behind said changes
  • Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play
  • To break the BW stacking meta, we must present viable alternatives in other classes, i.e. Slayer, SW, WL, WH. To do this, we are suggesting an aoe armor debuff on RP, similar but not mirrored, to Zealot's Sweeping Disgorgement
    e armor debuff value from Sweeping Disgorgement (Zealot 3pt Dark Rites) and add to Concussive Runes. Ensure it is a unique (stacking) debuff.
  • Morale drains are in abundance on Order
  • In regards to Proposed Change Two: we do not want to give an elemental debuff as this would just serve to make BW even more powerful/head and shoulders above all other DPS classes within a Warband. Please feel free to offer your ALTERNATIVE SUGGESTIONS.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#2 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:06 pm

Amended with a second proposal.
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#3 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:38 pm

1. Do you play the class in question?

Yes. R40/42

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?

Yes. 40/58 Zealot

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?

Playing it in all formats, all playstyle. Was my main on live since 2008 and my first rr100.

4. Your feedback

More class mirroring?
I found it quit cleaver to put the morale drain on RP rather then WL for the sake of having some combat ballance difference in the game. Just as I like having Shatter Limbs on SH rather then Choppa.

I'd rather see the armor debuff on a tactic for Engies Flame Turret tbh. It's were it's needed to be.

Proposal 1 is problematic due to Rune of Battle. You don't need to be dps specced to place this effect on a tank. With some Initive debuff from MoM, Natures Blade etz, some Crit buffs from SW, Kotbs etz and inc crit debuff from Kotbs this will trigger the effect as heal specced Runie from the backline making it much-much more versatile then the Zealot one.

Proposal 2 is relative problematic due to the increased range tactic which wont bring RP into the front to cast it like Zealot have to. Which mean they can pick it up as a backline healer aswell.



Won't spoiler it but will give you some time to amend post as per correct structure - ptp3
Last edited by roadkillrobin on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#4 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:17 am

Have a 40 something RP.

Mid tier Zealot.

I've done competitive small man and wb stuff in the past, but on this server mostly pug.

Dont remember if there is anything else.

I dont think any of that is totally relevant for this topic since it seems to be about realm balance, but there it is.

I think either choice would be good. Option 1 if you want them to be a little different. Option 2 if you want them to be more balanced, even though option 2 doesnt give you an ele debuff.

I am all for it being on the RP it's a strong debuff and gives a class that doesnt have a strong dps presence something extra. Very much against it going on a dps class that already can have strong dps.

It's not a debuff that should be given to a class that can utilize it itself. Would be happy with either option, I think it would be a good balance change.

samster
Posts: 95

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#5 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:17 am

Spoiler:
There's no way my cowardly ass is going face to face with a destro frontliner just to bust a rune of cleaving.
Option one please.
Please, follow the format.

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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#6 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:31 am

1. Do you play the class in question?

Runepriest 40/55 in WB Enviroment.

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?

Not played Zealot yet. Dwarfs only.

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?

Speaking from a perspective of a WB build to support the Rest of the Warband.

4. Your feedback

I'm for Option 2.
The Tactic would then be limited to Rune of Cleaving, but with Extended Runes you can increase Rune of Cleaving to 60 feet Range. Which is more than enough in a WB encounter that is usually decided in 6 seconds.

I'm against Option 1 because with Critical Attacks have for Critical AOE Attacks ONLY Rune of Might (inst. 30 feet) and Rune of Battle (30 feet around allied target). Rune of Cleaving is a Dot as well as the Aoe Rune you get from the Resist Rune.
Ofc with Option 1 you would help the Runepriest in small scale fighting. With the other Runes a ST Runepriest can make some ST attacks undefendable and pimp them with a Snare or increase their Critchance. But from a WB perspective this wouldn't help versus a Destro Meele push.

samster
Posts: 95

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#7 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:57 am

RR80 runie. played it on live, been playing mostly IT here as well. WB/solo/smallscale.

Also have a 40-something zealot.

Say what you will about teamplay, staying close to your guard, proper use of detaunts, blablabla - destro are notorious for their melee-train manners.
With grasshopper squiggies and ridiculous choppa blind pull - i have zero desire to be closer than 80ft to them, even in deffy gear and spec.

Do what's described in the first solution. It is a good addition to the deepsy abilities of what was meant to be a kiter-healer class to begin with.

Grognir
Posts: 49

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#8 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:09 am

1. Do you play the class in question?

Yes Rune Priest RR75, in group or WB, rvr or scenario

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?

No, never played destro neither other heal

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?

Perspective is for supporting our dps in any situation, should be rvr, scenario... mainly with warband.

4. Your feedback

Option 1 could be interesting mainly in a single target philosophy, by adding for exemple the debuff heal from rune of nullification, and using +15% crit from runic blasting for example.
But my preference goes to option 2 : from my point of view, due to small amount of dps that can deal a RP compare to other classes, it should be mainly consider as a support dps in some cases, and today the debuff a RP has are random (earth shielding, immolation grasp... for example), or linked to a critic. Moreover, a debuff dps RP in a warband can mainly count only on rune of might and rune of battle to apply AOE debuff, two capacity with long cd or time cast. Using option 2 should be a real great way to add a big interest to rune of cleaving by adding with certitude a debuff, adding some interesting combo possible in the tactic panel , and increase the different possible way to play a Rune priest in a warband.

Edit: proposition to alternative to elemental debuff . What about a capacity combat debuff? Concussive rune can be seen as a metal weakener, reducing armor and also weapon. Moreover it should help the group to take less damage, which is a protective role of the RP

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obamia
Posts: 33

Re: [Proposed Changes] Runepriest| Concussive Runes

Post#9 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:44 pm

I do play runepriest and i dont have a zealot.

I have played the runepriest in many scenarios, like warbands 6v6 and also smaller scale.

On all those scenarios i have tried healing and dps builds.

Healing is pretty straight forward and well balanced, as dps though and giving my dps perspective on this cause we are discussing of a dps-utility-debuff change i feel that more important changes have to be made.

First i agree that we need to focus away of class mirroring.

Second as dps-debuff toon in warband i feel not viable at all. Becomes somewhat viable with whispering winds buff on me but when this is not up i don't feel useful.

The healing debuff is really unreliable, as well as the 13pt ability of the third tree. (don't know if anybody ever used that)

The proposal changes i guess are regarding dps runies in warband play cause the rune of cleaving is for dmg specc and you actually need a dps build to be able to apply it. As healer you are a bit back and the disrupt chances are too high for you to apply a debuff most of the time (hold the line).

I like the idea of the elemental debuff in the class. Cause there is no elemental debuff in whole order class kit except of kotbs aura (and the auras are subject to change too). Same problem applies to zealots but at least they get an additional corp debuff from Black Orcs.


In conclusion i believe that this change is irrelevant for the class, and other things have priority to rework on. Like the healing debuff - elemental debuff or the 13 pt ability of the right tree.
If the idea is to give aoe armor debuff to order then choose another class to be able to do it, or give it to RP after you make the dps warband build viable.

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