Client Changelog 08/09/2018

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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#41 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:40 pm

bloodi wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:23 pm
catholicism198 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:18 pm


I don't know where your "math post" is, but one thing people fail to include/factor in is the BW's crit multiplier.
viewtopic.php?p=320430#p320430

Thats on max combustion on a BiS gear Bw against a Merc gear Wl, also i get the best possible outcome for the BW while i average it for the Wl, the Wl comes on top.

lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:01 pm
And you seem to simply not understand just how much DPS a BW puts out. Their tactic powered procs alone are enough to put other bombers to shame.
But i actually gave the numbers and how much that does. Even taking into account RNG and ideal situations for the BW, the numbers a WL can get are simple above them, what the Bw gets in increased proc chance and FP, the wl gets in more than double hits on their channel, increased utility and how on demand it is.

Hell, if people actually tried to disprove it you would have a point with how the BW can keep bombing past the 20 secs mark without much decreased damage while the WL makes up for it not having to ramp up but getting a hit after his buffs go off.

Right now, by itself, a Bw comes on top by a tiny margin, once you put a bw and a wp on the wl group, it starts to get really crazy for the wl, they are really good right now imo both on paper and ingame.
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:03 pm
Look, i really cant disprove the math so i rather keep riding this stupid train till it crashes while negating the big one.
Alright, be my guest.
You are completely off base if you compare WL to BW based on the damage of the channel lol. While WL for sure does some damage- as I've shown Mara does more. Are you saying Mara has been out dpsing BW for the last years? Cuz it hasn't. And I don't base that on theories, I base that on actual play.
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bloodi
Posts: 1639

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#42 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:48 pm

lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:40 pm
You are completely off base if you compare WL to BW based on the damage of the channel lol. While WL for sure does some damage- as I've shown Mara does more. Are you saying Mara has been out dpsing BW for the last years? Cuz it hasn't. And I don't base that on theories, I base that on actual play.

Well, for starters Mara lacks the 25% damage buff loner gives and is still not facing magical resitances, the armor pen is cool but armor is still in average way higher mitigation than resistances.

And just like i told Aura, is cool that you both try things in game, nothing against that but if you are unable to disprove math, welp, thats your issue mate, the numbers are there and you can extrapolate them since both BW and Wl are facing the same kinds of mitigation right now. 25% mitigation is the usuallly on the ballpark a wl will face at best after people are debuffed so, he gets the upperhand on mara here too.

Seriously, i did try both on dummies and in warband, Wls are quite at a good point right now, i have yet to get a BW/wp/ap battery with proper debuffs, it should only get better while the BW doesnt have much room to improve. Is not just about the channel, WL still has a filler than will hit 1k+, his aoe kd hits hard and his dots are meh but the channel more than makes up for it.

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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#43 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:00 pm

bloodi wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:48 pm
lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:40 pm
You are completely off base if you compare WL to BW based on the damage of the channel lol. While WL for sure does some damage- as I've shown Mara does more. Are you saying Mara has been out dpsing BW for the last years? Cuz it hasn't. And I don't base that on theories, I base that on actual play.

Well, for starters Mara lacks the 25% damage buff loner gives and is still not facing magical resitances, the armor pen is cool but armor is still in average way higher mitigation than resistances.

And just like i told Aura, is cool that you both try things in game, nothing against that but if you are unable to disprove math, welp, thats your issue mate, the numbers are there and you can extrapolate them since both BW and Wl are facing the same kinds of mitigation right now. 25% mitigation is the usuallly on the ballpark a wl will face at best after people are debuffed so, he gets the upperhand on mara here too.

Seriously, i did try both on dummies and in warband, Wls are quite at a good point right now, i have yet to get a BW/wp/ap battery with proper debuffs, it should only get better while the BW doesnt have much room to improve. Is not just about the channel, WL still has a filler than will hit 1k+, his aoe kd hits hard and his dots are meh but the channel more than makes up for it.
Take Loner out of the equation and WL damage is behind. The tactic put them on par, not ahead. And I already gave you the evidence of the whole Armor thing, it's simply in the Maras favor.

And just make it clear- BW procs alone are 465 damage. 465. 75% proc rate on the big one, but oh does it proc a lot.

Edit: But since you insist on missing the point of my comparison of Mara armor ignore and spirit resists, I will add this: vs light armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=12.55. Vs medium armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=19.64. And this is all at 300 WS, which is just a random number, and will be higher in game. So basically before you factor in any debuffs, the mara is already facing lower mitiagtion than the WL. Under the 9xx AoE armordebuff a Mara faces roughly half the amount of mitigation a WL faces after a 3xx spirit debuff on pretty much any target.
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Foomy44
Posts: 456

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#44 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:01 pm

Bregon wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:29 pm
are you actually kidding me? and SH mobility is fine right? whos gonna catch them now? moronic.
Order has WLs, Destro has no pounce for years: "WLs are fine"

Order has pounce, Destro has pounce on a potentially shorter CD for 1 day: "are you actually kidding me? and SH mobility is fine right? whos gonna catch them now? moronic."

lol
Last edited by Foomy44 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Retired 40+ Destro: TrollBlood, DoomBeast, DoomDoctor, Doomshadow, DoomDisk, FunkFoot, Bloodwell
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Jildaz
Posts: 100

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#45 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:33 am

Hi thanks for the patch !

As Althii said, Speed training tactic to buff pet' speed is not working.
Also Primal fury which buffs strengh and a bit of defense last 20 sec, and its says 10sec on the ability. Would be nice to keep it at 20 tho :p

cya
Gwelthas Breizhiel WL 80 Huntlord of The Eternal Host
Gwelthaz Breizhsson: IB 72 Sergeant of the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers
Gwelith BG 58 Kar Kadath Regiment

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Tesq
Posts: 4442

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#46 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:13 am

lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:00 pm
bloodi wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:48 pm
lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:40 pm
You are completely off base if you compare WL to BW based on the damage of the channel lol. While WL for sure does some damage- as I've shown Mara does more. Are you saying Mara has been out dpsing BW for the last years? Cuz it hasn't. And I don't base that on theories, I base that on actual play.

Well, for starters Mara lacks the 25% damage buff loner gives and is still not facing magical resitances, the armor pen is cool but armor is still in average way higher mitigation than resistances.

And just like i told Aura, is cool that you both try things in game, nothing against that but if you are unable to disprove math, welp, thats your issue mate, the numbers are there and you can extrapolate them since both BW and Wl are facing the same kinds of mitigation right now. 25% mitigation is the usuallly on the ballpark a wl will face at best after people are debuffed so, he gets the upperhand on mara here too.

Seriously, i did try both on dummies and in warband, Wls are quite at a good point right now, i have yet to get a BW/wp/ap battery with proper debuffs, it should only get better while the BW doesnt have much room to improve. Is not just about the channel, WL still has a filler than will hit 1k+, his aoe kd hits hard and his dots are meh but the channel more than makes up for it.
Take Loner out of the equation and WL damage is behind. The tactic put them on par, not ahead. And I already gave you the evidence of the whole Armor thing, it's simply in the Maras favor.

And just make it clear- BW procs alone are 465 damage. 465. 75% proc rate on the big one, but oh does it proc a lot.

Edit: But since you insist on missing the point of my comparison of Mara armor ignore and spirit resists, I will add this: vs light armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=12.55. Vs medium armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=19.64. And this is all at 300 WS, which is just a random number, and will be higher in game. So basically before you factor in any debuffs, the mara is already facing lower mitiagtion than the WL. Under the 9xx AoE armordebuff a Mara faces roughly half the amount of mitigation a WL faces after a 3xx spirit debuff on pretty much any target.
Have to disagree,

1-50% armor pen is roughtly 25% dmg increase in raw dmg so they are even on tactics dmg increase

2-des dont stack a lot of spiritual so or even in case sm can debuff it around 300 ish.
The medium res spi of not tank /healers is aroujd 500 ish.

Wl/mara should be close in dmg if both sides have debuff /tactics up. But mara bring more things which wl dont
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lefze
Posts: 762

Re: Client Changelog 08/09/2018

Post#47 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:22 am

Tesq wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:13 am
lefze wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:00 pm
bloodi wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:48 pm



Well, for starters Mara lacks the 25% damage buff loner gives and is still not facing magical resitances, the armor pen is cool but armor is still in average way higher mitigation than resistances.

And just like i told Aura, is cool that you both try things in game, nothing against that but if you are unable to disprove math, welp, thats your issue mate, the numbers are there and you can extrapolate them since both BW and Wl are facing the same kinds of mitigation right now. 25% mitigation is the usuallly on the ballpark a wl will face at best after people are debuffed so, he gets the upperhand on mara here too.

Seriously, i did try both on dummies and in warband, Wls are quite at a good point right now, i have yet to get a BW/wp/ap battery with proper debuffs, it should only get better while the BW doesnt have much room to improve. Is not just about the channel, WL still has a filler than will hit 1k+, his aoe kd hits hard and his dots are meh but the channel more than makes up for it.
Take Loner out of the equation and WL damage is behind. The tactic put them on par, not ahead. And I already gave you the evidence of the whole Armor thing, it's simply in the Maras favor.

And just make it clear- BW procs alone are 465 damage. 465. 75% proc rate on the big one, but oh does it proc a lot.

Edit: But since you insist on missing the point of my comparison of Mara armor ignore and spirit resists, I will add this: vs light armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=12.55. Vs medium armor conq+blue armor pot, mitigation=19.64. And this is all at 300 WS, which is just a random number, and will be higher in game. So basically before you factor in any debuffs, the mara is already facing lower mitiagtion than the WL. Under the 9xx AoE armordebuff a Mara faces roughly half the amount of mitigation a WL faces after a 3xx spirit debuff on pretty much any target.
Have to disagree,

1-50% armor pen is roughtly 25% dmg increase in raw dmg so they are even on tactics dmg increase

2-des dont stack a lot of spiritual so or even in case sm can debuff it around 300 ish.
The medium res spi of not tank /healers is aroujd 500 ish.

Wl/mara should be close in dmg if both sides have debuff /tactics up. But mara bring more things which wl dont
Go back a page and look at the post I was supplementing here, it's not something you CAN disagree on. It's simply how it is, the numbers are there.
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