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DaWolf
Posts: 103

Re: Stats

Post#81 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:28 pm

Thank you very much Fenris78
I knew I could count on a Wolf ;)

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Fenris78
Posts: 434

Re: Stats

Post#82 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:26 pm

areandar wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:31 pm
Probably mostly accurate but this leaves out the hidden levels and the hidden mechanic behind the item levels wich are deep in the cliënt + dont know if their mult 1.5 is still in effect wich basicly neglects all the above info inaccurate
I'm not aware of hidden stats you mention, but all those equivalences refer to rank 40 vs rank 40 players (or mobs for that matters).

All "hidden" stats as I know are :
- +10% base chance of healing crit (real healing crit is always 10% more on everyone)
- +10% parry/block strikethrough using 2H
- +10% parry using dual-wield

nocturnalguest
Posts: 241

Re: Stats

Post#83 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm

There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.

areandar
Posts: 34

Re: Stats

Post#84 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:52 pm

nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm
There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.
No there is not but probably ror hasnt decoded thus far yet .
"attacks stat coefficient"
these are only found in client side ability tables.
each ability has multiplier against primary stat ror uses 1.5 set in place on live each ability uses a different value so any calculation of ur stats is wrong and balanced against a broken stats system. U can test in a way on ror all u want but the values would never be perfect wich is fine for this game and doesnt have to be changed basicly all iam saying any stat will never calculate properly.

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saupreusse
Database Developer
Posts: 2326

Re: Stats

Post#85 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:54 pm

nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm
There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.
Its not hidden. The formula is the same as before just catches an exception where less than 35ini would result in absurd crit chances. It goes like this:
Chance to receive a crit:
(3500/(ini+35))+(critbonus-critred)
Image

nocturnalguest
Posts: 241

Re: Stats

Post#86 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:58 pm

areandar wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:52 pm
nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm
There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.
No there is not but probably ror hasnt decoded thus far yet .
"attacks stat coefficient"
these are only found in client side ability tables.
each ability has multiplier against primary stat ror uses 1.5 set in place on live each ability uses a different value so any calculation of ur stats is wrong and balanced against a broken stats system. U can test in a way on ror all u want but the values would never be perfect wich is fine for this game and doesnt have to be changed basicly all iam saying any stat will never calculate properly.

Still i struggle very much to understand whats your point.

Coefficients (i called them modifiers) are what determinate the final number you will see in your log when you use ability to attack an enemy. They do exists as i said before and, for whatever odd reasons RoR team has, are not publicly shared, which is wrong and bad imo. Each ability that is tied to a mastery tree have them and they depend on mastery points spent into respective mastery tree and on your main stat (str, bs, int). The only exceptions are damaging abilities not tied into mastery tries, like severs and shatters on tanks, they do have only main stat modifier (coefficient). You can figure them very easily on training dummies (dummies stats are known and confirmed by devs) changing either mastery points or main stat value without changing anything else. They do have different values for different classes and types of abilities, like channels, dots, range etc. However abilities are grouped and usually have same modifiers for main stat/mastery inside a group of such abilities, with quite a bunch of exceptions tho, i admit (the best example is Engineer "Snipe" ability that is "nerfed" as if it wasnt 3 seconds cast time, it has much lower scaling than others).
I suppose that "multipliers" you mention that goes "against primary stat" is the tiny part of damage calculation where str/bs/int are opposed to ws/ini/wp, correct? Or what do you mean by that? Also you say "values would never be perfect" but that is explained easily with simple math rounding that is coded in AoR/RoR.
And however i didnt run tests for all abilities on all classes present on RoR i did them for all IB abilities and for particular abilities of kotbs/sm/bg/bo/chosen/mara/engi/slayer/wl/asw/sh. I never ever encountered "any stat will never calculate properly" but absolutely the opposite - they fit perfectly into confirmed formulas and i see in game combat log the exact result that was supposed to be according to formulas.

Could happen we talk about absolutely different things tho, so if you care to elaborate on your points i'd be glad to discuss.
Correct me if im wrong but you claim that formulas will never align with exact in-game data or what? Also you say that "any calculation of ur stats is wrong" but what exact type of calculations do you mean? Final damage against target with known stats? Incorrect char window? What do you mean by "balanced against a broken stats system"? What is "balanced", "multipliers" of abilities, abilities themselves, stats?
Last edited by nocturnalguest on Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 241

Re: Stats

Post#87 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:03 pm

saupreusse wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:54 pm
nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm
There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.
Its not hidden. The formula is the same as before just catches an exception where less than 35ini would result in absurd crit chances. It goes like this:
Chance to receive a crit:
(3500/(ini+35))+(critbonus-critred)
Should have put it into "" as well as it was kinda a figure of speech.

areandar
Posts: 34

Re: Stats

Post#88 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:36 pm

nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:58 pm
areandar wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:52 pm
nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:37 pm
There is only 1 hidden "stat" in RoR and its +35 ini you get cause crit formula is entirely different than it was on live. Mysterious "hidden mechanic behind the item levels" exists only in code responsible for bolster scaling.
areandar most likely messes it up and probably means the final dmg you see in log using an ability. most abilities do have main stat and mastery points modifiers. they are not "deep in the client" tho and can be easily figured by yourself on dummies.
No there is not but probably ror hasnt decoded thus far yet .
"attacks stat coefficient"
these are only found in client side ability tables.
each ability has multiplier against primary stat ror uses 1.5 set in place on live each ability uses a different value so any calculation of ur stats is wrong and balanced against a broken stats system. U can test in a way on ror all u want but the values would never be perfect wich is fine for this game and doesnt have to be changed basicly all iam saying any stat will never calculate properly.

Still i struggle very much to understand whats your point.

Coefficients (i called them modifiers) are what determinate the final number you will see in your log when you use ability to attack an enemy. They do exists as i said before and, for whatever odd reasons RoR team has, are not publicly shared, which is wrong and bad imo. Each ability that is tied to a mastery tree have them and they depend on mastery points spent into respective mastery tree and on your main stat (str, bs, int). The only exceptions are damaging abilities not tied into mastery tries, like severs and shatters on tanks, they do have only main stat modifier (coefficient). You can figure them very easily on training dummies (dummies stats are known and confirmed by devs) changing either mastery points or main stat value without changing anything else. They do have different values for different classes and types of abilities, like channels, dots, range etc. However abilities are grouped and usually have same modifiers for main stat/mastery inside a group of such abilities, with quite a bunch of exceptions tho, i admit (the best example is Engineer "Snipe" ability that is "nerfed" as if it wasnt 3 seconds cast time, it has much lower scaling than others).
I suppose that "multipliers" you mention that goes "against primary stat" is the tiny part of damage calculation where str/bs/int are opposed to ws/ini/wp, correct? Or what do you mean by that? Also you say "values would never be perfect" but that is explained easily with simple math rounding that is coded in AoR/RoR.
And however i didnt run tests for all abilities on all classes present on RoR i did them for all IB abilities and for particular abilities of kotbs/sm/bg/bo/chosen/mara/engi/slayer/wl/asw/sh. I never ever encountered "any stat will never calculate properly" but absolutely the opposite - they fit perfectly into confirmed formulas and i see in game combat log the exact result that was supposed to be according to formulas.

Could happen we talk about absolutely different things tho, so if you care to elaborate on your points i'd be glad to discuss.
Correct me if im wrong but you claim that formulas will never align with exact in-game data or what? Also you say that "any calculation of ur stats is wrong" but what exact type of calculations do you mean? Final damage against target with known stats? Incorrect char window? What do you mean by "balanced against a broken stats system"? What is "balanced", "multipliers" of abilities, abilities themselves, stats?

to elaborate on ur question, the only way for us to be sure is to know the actual formulas used, example this is original formula for
armor mitigation according to the official game is TargetARMOR / Attacker level / 110 armor penetration is attacker weapon skill / (targets level * 30 + 200)
these numbers
30, 200, 110 might have changed over time and iam quite sure ror doesnt use these in the slightest.
so according to what u say might sound correct for Ror , but to compare it to official is a no go.
so saying but absolutely the opposite - they fit perfectly into confirmed formulas and i see in game combat log the exact result that was supposed to be according to formulas. thats cause they made it work with their formulas wich are probably entirely different. would still result in same result but calculated differently. for example I put 50% incoming heal debuf, 50% outgoing, and 100% no heals from excommunicate m4
result on live have been you heal for 1. (i dont know the result on ror so dont get me on that point ) . but u get the point i hope its like saying a melee attack goes true the checks block / parry then level blablabla or saying no a melee attack goes first true the checks parry /block u can match the end result but the result is still different hope u understand anyways i am not trying to annoy you i just stated a fact. anyways i hope this is enough information for you. if not the stats speak for themselfs :"d

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nocturnalguest
Posts: 241

Re: Stats

Post#89 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:41 pm

areandar wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:36 pm
to elaborate on ur question, the only way for us to be sure is to know the actual formulas used, example this is original formula for
armor mitigation according to the official game is TargetARMOR / Attacker level / 110 armor penetration is attacker weapon skill / (targets level * 30 + 200)
these numbers
30, 200, 110 might have changed over time and iam quite sure ror doesnt use these in the slightest.
so according to what u say might sound correct for Ror , but to compare it to official is a no go.
so saying but absolutely the opposite - they fit perfectly into confirmed formulas and i see in game combat log the exact result that was supposed to be according to formulas. thats cause they made it work with their formulas wich are probably entirely different. would still result in same result but calculated differently. for example I put 50% incoming heal debuf, 50% outgoing, and 100% no heals from excommunicate m4
result on live have been you heal for 1. (i dont know the result on ror so dont get me on that point ) . but u get the point i hope its like saying a melee attack goes true the checks block / parry then level blablabla or saying no a melee attack goes first true the checks parry /block u can match the end result but the result is still different hope u understand anyways i am not trying to annoy you i just stated a fact. anyways i hope this is enough information for you. if not the stats speak for themselfs :"d
Ahhhhhhh, i see now what you mean. Yes thats true indeed. Cant see the reasons why not to reveal the exact code for combat formulas calculations so community could be:
1) understanding better what they see in combat log
2) modeling things easily and correctly
3) way more specific on balance discussions about abilities
The amount of people totally clueless of game mechanics is astounding. Also its much more beginner friendly as i've encountered a lot of new people asking things (e.g. fresh example was about dual wielding mechanic not being able to figure what they see in combat log clearly not knowing that offhand is a proc) and you basically cant link them anything transparent enough, but a bunch of links for old forum threads and webarchieves with old live info.

areandar
Posts: 34

Re: Stats

Post#90 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:02 pm

nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:41 pm
areandar wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:36 pm
to elaborate on ur question, the only way for us to be sure is to know the actual formulas used, example this is original formula for
armor mitigation according to the official game is TargetARMOR / Attacker level / 110 armor penetration is attacker weapon skill / (targets level * 30 + 200)
these numbers
30, 200, 110 might have changed over time and iam quite sure ror doesnt use these in the slightest.
so according to what u say might sound correct for Ror , but to compare it to official is a no go.
so saying but absolutely the opposite - they fit perfectly into confirmed formulas and i see in game combat log the exact result that was supposed to be according to formulas. thats cause they made it work with their formulas wich are probably entirely different. would still result in same result but calculated differently. for example I put 50% incoming heal debuf, 50% outgoing, and 100% no heals from excommunicate m4
result on live have been you heal for 1. (i dont know the result on ror so dont get me on that point ) . but u get the point i hope its like saying a melee attack goes true the checks block / parry then level blablabla or saying no a melee attack goes first true the checks parry /block u can match the end result but the result is still different hope u understand anyways i am not trying to annoy you i just stated a fact. anyways i hope this is enough information for you. if not the stats speak for themselfs :"d
Ahhhhhhh, i see now what you mean. Yes thats true indeed. Cant see the reasons why not to reveal the exact code for combat formulas calculations so community could be:
1) understanding better what they see in combat log
2) modeling things easily and correctly
3) way more specific on balance discussions about abilities
The amount of people totally clueless of game mechanics is astounding. Also its much more beginner friendly as i've encountered a lot of new people asking things (e.g. fresh example was about dual wielding mechanic not being able to figure what they see in combat log clearly not knowing that offhand is a proc) and you basically cant link them anything transparent enough, but a bunch of links for old forum threads and webarchieves with old live info.

I agree with you but the team thinks otherwise so we will allways be just rouge geussing. and to be fair dont think anyone is interested to create their own server with it. Take example apoc code has been public for 2 years now and i dont see 5 new servers or anyone picking it up the interest is extremely low for it. So dont think it will Hurt this entire server with making a formula public. But yeah Who are we to say.

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