New xRealm Lockout

[wargrimnir]

Add a 60 min timer to debuff renown gains to 0 when switching realm? I mostly hop around checking mail, AH, doing crafting, finding pve group, doing some dungeon and maybe another on the other side.
Now I'm mostly limiting myself to destro coz of the actual restriction of not being able to log to my order alts, even if it were just to search for a pve group so I can finish my sentinel jewel farm or next gunbad wards.

The buff to logging underdog in rvr would then counter said "no renown"-debuff, so you effectively have +/- 0 effect - apart from allowing more freedom for players to actually play.

and apart from massive logging to defending side, don't really remember much "abuse" over last years of free realm switching (and even those huge defender numbers stemmed from cities, dungeons, scs emptying for a fort defence + calls in guild/alliance discords to gather people to farm the inv currency)

current system does not prevent people from logging to larger side, and doesn't really address the fort situation at all - so don't see any benefit over keeping it. and if some ppl like switching to blobbing side, let them, more targets to kill for those who have learned to love the AAO.

We've already seen this play out repeatedly where a realm will throw an end zone and suddenly double their defenses to farm kills at a fort funnel and a piece of Invader currency. Something I would expect someone with multiple characters wearing Invader gear to understand very well and have a better perspective on. Or perhaps we have to assume that you specifically have a very clear perspective on this, and your suggestion/defense is simply to preserve the ability to swap and funnel farm.

90 minutes isn't forever, but it's usually long enough to prevent someone from swapping zones when a fort is imminent. Your "freedom" to play whatever realm you want is being infringed by the fact this is an RvR game at its core and needs to resemble something of the sort in several ways. There's lots of other games where it doesn't matter which side you rep for the sake of convenience and "freedom".

[Sengirv]

Aye aye (/Cheers)

[Snoxx]

So this is all about fortress x-realming?

In other words, this lockout exists because defending a fort ("funnel farm") is much more rewarding than attacking a fort?

Why not try to fix this imbalance instead? If fortress fights weren't such one-sided funnel-farm zergfests, the game would be overall better and there would be less reward for x-realmers. I understand how complicated it is to balance fortress fights. Just saying this is the core problem and thus should be adressed. The lockout timer is really just a bandaid fix, doesn't touch the core problem at all.

Besides, the current lockout system doesn't prevent you from pushing a zone towards a fortress, and then log onto the other side to defend this fortress. Example: First you fight in Reikland zone with your destro char, and then log onto your order char to defend Reikwald once the fortress fight starts. Right now, this is possible.

Suggestion:
Fortress rewards (invader tokens and bags) should be only given to players who fought in the previous zone ON THE SAME SIDE!
Example: You only get rewards from a Reikwald fortress defense if you helped defend the Reikland zone before.

This will also prevent ppl from hopping onto the "oh nice, fortress defense" train. Some ppl enjoy PvE and will only hop into RvR when there is a fortress defense. Others play scenarios and only enter RvR to snuck some invader tokens from easy-cheesy funnel-farm fortress fights.

[blakokami]

Add a 60 min timer to debuff renown gains to 0 when switching realm? I mostly hop around checking mail, AH, doing crafting, finding pve group, doing some dungeon and maybe another on the other side.
Now I'm mostly limiting myself to destro coz of the actual restriction of not being able to log to my order alts, even if it were just to search for a pve group so I can finish my sentinel jewel farm or next gunbad wards.

The buff to logging underdog in rvr would then counter said "no renown"-debuff, so you effectively have +/- 0 effect - apart from allowing more freedom for players to actually play.

and apart from massive logging to defending side, don't really remember much "abuse" over last years of free realm switching (and even those huge defender numbers stemmed from cities, dungeons, scs emptying for a fort defence + calls in guild/alliance discords to gather people to farm the inv currency)

current system does not prevent people from logging to larger side, and doesn't really address the fort situation at all - so don't see any benefit over keeping it. and if some ppl like switching to blobbing side, let them, more targets to kill for those who have learned to love the AAO.

We've already seen this play out repeatedly where a realm will throw an end zone and suddenly double their defenses to farm kills at a fort funnel and a piece of Invader currency. Something I would expect someone with multiple characters wearing Invader gear to understand very well and have a better perspective on. Or perhaps we have to assume that you specifically have a very clear perspective on this, and your suggestion/defense is simply to preserve the ability to swap and funnel farm.

90 minutes isn't forever, but it's usually long enough to prevent someone from swapping zones when a fort is imminent. Your "freedom" to play whatever realm you want is being infringed by the fact this is an RvR game at its core and needs to resemble something of the sort in several ways. There's lots of other games where it doesn't matter which side you rep for the sake of convenience and "freedom".

Where exactly is this funnel farming happening? You say that defenders throw the end zones so they can get to fort.. so no funnel farming in end zones by defenders because they are letting the attackers take the zone for free. And there is a population cap tied to contribution/reservation now so how is there a funnel farm in forts either? Apart from the fact that once you get to a certain number of defenders forts are almost impossible to take. But that has nothing to do with x-realming, just bad fort design.

[Mitzie]

I think the timer should only be applied if you step into an rvr zone (open world or Scenario). Not if I just want to log onto one side just to check something.

[Sulorie]

How about giving timer after either being flagged for pvp OR being logged in for 5-10 minutes but then lock char for several hours to this side.
It was no different on live (albeit you had one free swap to enemy side, when timer was finished - something you could abuse) and we survived as well and committing to pve is a choice as well, you pick one side for the day, with all consequences.
5-10 min is enough to check mail or AH but too little time to start pve dungeons, sc or rvr.
You can't abuse it either unless you just don't play either side until fort is about to start but this is no different to the current situation.
With 3rd party chat we can already get the information we need to pick the "right" side.

Tell me how to abuse the suggested mechanic.

[Aurandilaz]

Add a 60 min timer to debuff renown gains to 0 when switching realm? I mostly hop around checking mail, AH, doing crafting, finding pve group, doing some dungeon and maybe another on the other side.
Now I'm mostly limiting myself to destro coz of the actual restriction of not being able to log to my order alts, even if it were just to search for a pve group so I can finish my sentinel jewel farm or next gunbad wards.

The buff to logging underdog in rvr would then counter said "no renown"-debuff, so you effectively have +/- 0 effect - apart from allowing more freedom for players to actually play.

and apart from massive logging to defending side, don't really remember much "abuse" over last years of free realm switching (and even those huge defender numbers stemmed from cities, dungeons, scs emptying for a fort defence + calls in guild/alliance discords to gather people to farm the inv currency)

current system does not prevent people from logging to larger side, and doesn't really address the fort situation at all - so don't see any benefit over keeping it. and if some ppl like switching to blobbing side, let them, more targets to kill for those who have learned to love the AAO.

We've already seen this play out repeatedly where a realm will throw an end zone and suddenly double their defenses to farm kills at a fort funnel and a piece of Invader currency. Something I would expect someone with multiple characters wearing Invader gear to understand very well and have a better perspective on. Or perhaps we have to assume that you specifically have a very clear perspective on this, and your suggestion/defense is simply to preserve the ability to swap and funnel farm.

90 minutes isn't forever, but it's usually long enough to prevent someone from swapping zones when a fort is imminent. Your "freedom" to play whatever realm you want is being infringed by the fact this is an RvR game at its core and needs to resemble something of the sort in several ways. There's lots of other games where it doesn't matter which side you rep for the sake of convenience and "freedom".

Throwing endzone is just pure math; throw zone, enter fort, gain 4 invader vs defend zone and push back to gain 1 invader. 4 times the difference in expected gains depending on game action chosen.
Also, I can say, first 2,5 months when forts came I was defending (and mostly losing) on choppa with often buggy forts and getting roflstomped by order fort pushes back when they were doing proper fort wbs. Then I went to farm it on slayer, took less than 1,5 months because order was pushing nonstop and winning bags is actually easy on a class that is on winning side and can do massive aoe dmg. Then next 2 months to grind it on WL, mostly order pushes. Then 2 months on SM, some defences some attacks. Then chosen during 2 months, mostly attacking as somehow order had run out of steam - now last month or so WE, few defences, mostly pushes into well funneled massively defended fort - my main contri being from stealthing around capping flags and being then zerged to death by nearby 50 defenders who dislike anyone touching their flag. So no, I tend to stick to one class and then keep farming on it regardless of who is attacking/defending.

Yes, some people might prefer to keep logging to defender side, but I'd say those are a minority - the largest difference comes from people who stop doing scs, halt their dungeon run, or use a @everyone call in their guild discords and within 5-10mins of fort start, the numbers almost double or tripled on both sides - maybe some xrealming, but mainly people just logging in or waiting at the sidelines of the campaign until fort finally started.
And the current x-realm lock doesn't really alter any of those factors, maybe the 20-30 people who really liked funneling on their "i was born to funnel"-classes kept doing, but those would be a relatively small portion compared to cities draining and scs stopping as people would rush to forts.

I generally like being attacker, its more risky than standing in a pile of defenders pressing 1-2-3 or whatever that class' funnel rotation consists of - you actually need to do actively seek out stuff to kill or rush flags instead of forming a pile of bodies and hoping its a big enough pile to beat enemy corpsepile. (or maybe im just still traumatized over the initial fort defences where order kept roflstomping my choppa as I kept dying to rain of fire with pug wbs on average having 1-2 healers when defending)

As the lockout now is, it doesn't even prevent you from switching side, you just need to log in early enough to get a chance to pick if you really love funnel2win forts. It's mostly just a massive hindrance to people grinding pve on both sides, or those who might plan on switching their guild warbands to underdog (but might not even be possible if half of the wb players have a lockout). Forts are still a huge mess, whether or not this lockout stays in place or not.

[Xergon]

We made the xRealm lockout stricter in the most recent patch.

The lock is only applied when you switch realm. If you played last night on Order and today you log into Order there will be no lock applied. If you then switch to Destruction then you will be locked to Destro for 90 mins.

So if you log back in to the last realm you played you won't be locked.

We are open to feedback and are looking to improve the system. So if you have any constructive feedback please post.

Please keep feedback on topic and focus more on improving the system, possible exceptions, etc.

Would it be possible to make the lockout only apply after a character is flagged for RvR?

The current lockout system gets in the way of activities that have nothing to do with leeching rewards in RvR like organizing tournament fights, checking auction house, setting up addons on different characters and so on.

You clearly understand why this check exists. If you think with just a little bit of scrutiny over whether a check will work, it should be fairly obvious that leaving a loophole for the sake of players that don't abuse a check, would very quickly become abused by players that will. All they need to do is wait outside of rvr until the conditions are ripe for them to take advantage of. This is even more counter intuitive if we left such a loophole open as players would then be encouraged to not do rvr at all until the opportunity that this check specifically limits presents itself.

If you can suggest an alternative that both limits this behavior as we intend and preserves the freedoms of players then go for it, but your current suggestion does not help us achieve our goals.

Well, current system doesnt work either, as the timer of lockout starts and pass by during playing current faction, that means, if i log destro 90min before fort there is nothing to stop me to switch to order if fort pop out...

Whats being suggested makes more sens, start timer lockout at the end of logging out, but reduce it to like to 40-60mins maybe.

Also making restriction to rewards lockout would make much more sens, for example u can switch faction but if u do, u will get 0 renown, no tokens and no bag contribution for lets say 60min in RvR (idk if u want to restrict also SC, its ur call), and thats ur lockout, which could be even displayed the same way how the killing bosses in PvE works, it can even work the same way as u have autopass on loot.

[TiberiusD]

Another thing which i see is put number restrictions. 120 attackers, 96 defenders without any more numbers. If the defenders are coming, at 96 number inside the fort area ( not within fort walls) people to be prevented joining with a message"the maximum limit of defenders has been reached. Come back later". Same for attackers. I don't know if it' 40/40 or everybody can join it but i saw lv 27,35,37,34,30,20,17 inside fort with numbers like 130 attackers 102 defenders which is way over 120/96 like it should be (i think it was already being addressed on bugtracker - need to check. If not, next time i will get info and so it).
In my opinion fort zones should be opened for everybody with no career rank restriction but rewards according to that specific CR/RR and population limit. If the 120/96 limit is kinda low, increase it to 144/120. But the limit cap must work. If this works there will be no bypassers, and the xrealm will be solved.

OR. To not start fort unless the numbers of both attackers and defenders are filled.

[Lithenir]

Would it be possible to make the lockout only apply after a character is flagged for RvR?

The current lockout system gets in the way of activities that have nothing to do with leeching rewards in RvR like organizing tournament fights, checking auction house, setting up addons on different characters and so on.

You clearly understand why this check exists. If you think with just a little bit of scrutiny over whether a check will work, it should be fairly obvious that leaving a loophole for the sake of players that don't abuse a check, would very quickly become abused by players that will. All they need to do is wait outside of rvr until the conditions are ripe for them to take advantage of. This is even more counter intuitive if we left such a loophole open as players would then be encouraged to not do rvr at all until the opportunity that this check specifically limits presents itself.

If you can suggest an alternative that both limits this behavior as we intend and preserves the freedoms of players then go for it, but your current suggestion does not help us achieve our goals.

Well, current system doesnt work either, as the timer of lockout starts and pass by during playing current faction, that means, if i log destro 90min before fort there is nothing to stop me to switch to order if fort pop out...

Whats being suggested makes more sens, start timer lockout at the end of logging out, but reduce it to like to 40-60mins maybe.

Also making restriction to rewards lockout would make much more sens, for example u can switch faction but if u do, u will get 0 renown, no tokens and no bag contribution for lets say 60min in RvR (idk if u want to restrict also SC, its ur call), and thats ur lockout, which could be even displayed the same way how the killing bosses in PvE works, it can even work the same way as u have autopass on loot.

Well you could switch to order but you probably wouldn't get enough contribution to get a fort reservation.
And the suggestion to start the timer by logging out and reduce it, could be badly abused. Would be really easy, you just logg in and immediatly log out. So the low timer would start. Now you can play the locked faction.

Start faction lockout every day new, not only by switching faction from day to day. This way it can't be abused. But make the lockout timer only reduce the rewards in RvR to 0. So you would have 0 renown, 0 xp, 0 loot and 0 contribution for 90 mins. Maybe show it to the ppl via buff/debuff so they know how long they won't get rewards in RvR. Nobody will do RvR while getting absolutely nothing. The PvE and AH fans can log their chars like they want without any loss in PvE but wouldn't be able to participate in RvR on both sides. So lets say you log into order, you get the 0 reward lockout for destro, if you then switch to destro you get the lockout on order and suddenly you get 0 rewards on order also. PvE fans should be happy

I don't see much problems with xRealm tbh. Without the contribution system for forts people just stayed in capital while queuing for sc because they didn't need to be in RvR area for contribution. So you often had times with like 700 ppl online in t4 but around 300 in RvR lakes. Very obvious that suddenly in forts more ppl show up.