Stats

In this section, you will find some advices and basics to start quietly ingame. Question like " I'm lvl 1, what shall i do?", "What class shall i pick?", will find some answers in this place.

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 250

Stats

Post#1 » Tue May 07, 2019 10:52 am

I understand how most stats work. WS adds to parry and armor penetration. STR to damage ouput. I am not sure how armor pen relates to STR.

I see most (nearly all) mdps stack STR, and archers stack BS. Ignoring the advantages SH gets from converting BS to mdps, I am unsure when you should stack WS instead of BS or STR. I assume most people see armor pen as secondary provided they have maxed STR.

STR seems to do something of a similar job to WS. If you have STR 800 versus someone with armor 800, how does armor mitigation work and when is armor pen important? For example, would someone with STR 400 but twice the armor pen deliver similar damage to someone with STR 800?

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Ysaran
Posts: 382

Re: Stats

Post#2 » Tue May 07, 2019 11:03 am

I don't recall exact formula but it should work like: you inflict base damage depending on your str and enemy toughness, then this is multiplied by damage multiplier (like crit, which is x1.5, Choppa's berserk, flanking, mdps vanq bonus and so on*), now the multiplied base damage is reduced by [(enemy armor)-(your armor pen)]. So ws is a secondary stat because it don't benefit from damage multiplier since armor reduction is applied after damage multiplier.

*Look here for some details on damage multiplier & crit: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=31505&p=357066&hil ... sh#p357066
Last edited by Ysaran on Tue May 07, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 250

Re: Stats

Post#3 » Tue May 07, 2019 11:27 am

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. So perhaps some tank classes benefit from WS but only those builds that dont stack large crit/damage multipliers?

jasonX
Posts: 126

Re: Stats

Post#4 » Tue May 07, 2019 11:39 am

See my calculations on page 4 of this post.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31614&p=358096#p358096

weaponskill definitely worths it since everyone is stackign armor so easily now.
Gitbane 80RR Choppa, Giant Pink Blender Coordinator
Gitbaneist 58RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :(, done with Order)

BeautfulToad
Posts: 250

Re: Stats

Post#5 » Tue May 07, 2019 12:09 pm

jasonX wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:39 am
See my calculations on page 4 of this post.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31614&p=358096#p358096

weaponskill definitely worths it since everyone is stackign armor so easily now.
This is excellent, exactly what I was looking for. You also introduced the term "bro-science loop" to me.

Am I right in saying your maths show that even improved crit percentages would not change your conclusion. Am I right in saying that this would also hold for those with large buffs to damage output?

jasonX
Posts: 126

Re: Stats

Post#6 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:09 pm

BeautfulToad wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:09 pm

This is excellent, exactly what I was looking for. You also introduced the term "bro-science loop" to me.

Am I right in saying your maths show that even improved crit percentages would not change your conclusion. Am I right in saying that this would also hold for those with large buffs to damage output?
Bro-science loop and people making their mind over matters based on hoaxes is the modern plague :P. If there is a second Dark Ages coming those two "trends" are to blame :P. Critical thinking is really dead nowadays, people just bite and puke whatever they randomly receive or suits them :P

Ok back to the calculations.

Any bonus applied on those numbers is a flat bonus, an analogically applied constant. So 4% crit that gives a 4% chance to deal +50% dmg ON AN AVERAGE gives you 4%*50% = 2% more damage. That also happens with buffs providing for example +25% bonus damage like vegeance. You will deal more damage but the mitigation level will apply normally to that as well. So if your basic damage is maximized by a proper balance of weaponskill and ballistics/str then your boosted damage will be maximized in the same way as well.

However. Your choice of stat has to rely on your class and your target. If your target is squishy and isnt stacking a lot of armor (which is extremely rare unless they are poor SWs or Squigs that need weaponskill and waste all their talisman slots on WS) then going for the main stat (str/ball) is the key. If your class has a passive armor bypass (like maras, Wls, WEs, WHs, Choppas and slayers with 7invader set pieces) or you have an immense armor debuff (like maras and WLs reducing 1800 armor) you can go for a lower weaponskill level. It all depends on your abilities and your targets armor and toughness.

The formula to use is
skill Tooltip damage - (enemy toughness/5) = X damage
enemy armor *(1-your armor penetration) = Y armor which equals to Z physical damage mitigation (make some trials putting on and off gear to see what Z% is Y armor for example Y = 1534 armor then from my char I can see that this equals to a Z= 34.9% physical damage mitigation).
If i were you i would consider the fact that my high value targets have a total of 2800-3200 armor AT LEAST and then calculate Y and Z

Damage dealt = X*(1-Z)

If you want a really rounded up estimation, the most efficient combo is 900-980 ballistics/str with around 700ws for SW and Squigs regarding damage output vs armor stacking clothies. For higher level armored enemies over 3200 armor you need more weaponskill to have low mitigation.
Gitbane 80RR Choppa, Giant Pink Blender Coordinator
Gitbaneist 58RR Chosen, tankier version of Gitbane
Ethilia 84RR SW (too much nerf, RIP :(, done with Order)

BeautfulToad
Posts: 250

Re: Stats

Post#7 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Great, thanks. Interestingly, the way you describe it means 2 handed tanks esp might be better stacking WS, if they spend their time bashing medium and heavy armor-clad melee.

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