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Combat calculations

In this section, you will find some advices and basics to start quietly ingame. Question like " I'm lvl 1, what shall i do?", "What class shall i pick?", will find some answers in this place.
arorwne
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Combat calculations

Post#1 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:56 pm

How is damage in combat really calculated? How does INT(etc) influence skill damage, should I trust tooltips? How about Toughness?

Also, a somewhat unrelated question. Why is Focused Offense so god damn awful? If you try to compare it to its most similar counterpart(ie "I want to solo / dps") - Divine Fury, it's like...ok. Why? It's not even good in PvE, mobs will eat you alive.

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arorwne
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Re: Combat calculations

Post#2 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:12 pm

Oh, just another thing:

What's the point of all those 2x Aggro abilities(like Sunder or Grudging Blow etc)? Even in group PvE...there are other solutions to managing Aggro. And in solo...anything, they are literally useless. They are antiquated garbage. Maybe if they gave something more, like a self heal(=calculates into aggro, so 200% is maintained), a buff or something?

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Rydiak
Posts: 770

Re: Combat calculations

Post#3 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 pm

Check out the damage calculator in my signature. It should help you get a better understanding on how everything works.
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!

Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!

arorwne
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Re: Combat calculations

Post#4 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:59 pm

Rydiak wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 pm Check out the damage calculator in my signature. It should help you get a better understanding on how everything works.
Thank you. What about Focused Offense though, any thoughts about that? And 2x Aggro crap.

Also what are the stats of PvE mobs? I heard they are floor(7,5 * lvl + base) ; base = 50.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Combat calculations

Post#5 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:21 pm

focused offense is trash and always has been. i think the idea has always been that buffing it would encourage more tanks to go dps rather than doing their actual job, which nobody else wants. the destro dps tank meleeball is already incredibly effective in pub SCs

the formula for mobs is near impossible to calculate because many have special straight dmg abilities or procs

arorwne
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Re: Combat calculations

Post#6 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:11 pm

tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:21 pm focused offense is trash and always has been. i think the idea has always been that buffing it would encourage more tanks to go dps rather than doing their actual job, which nobody else wants. the destro dps tank meleeball is already incredibly effective in pub SCs

the formula for mobs is near impossible to calculate because many have special straight dmg abilities or procs
But Divine Fury is ok? Archmage and RP become quite over the top with it. Maybe Grace / Wrath WP too. But we all know that WP requires tons of extra effort when compared to RP. And RP can become a selfsustaining BW(!).

I don't want DF to get nerfed, I just want FO to become more than a meme. Actually, Tanks need a lot of help while leveling, regardless of leveling method. They just require far too much effort and group support. Aggro abilities, Focused Offense etc...reworking all of that, excuse the term, trash would greatly help tanks. Look, I love tanks, but why bother when you have Rambos like WH, WL or WP?

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Combat calculations

Post#7 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:19 pm

arorwne wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:11 pm
tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:21 pm focused offense is trash and always has been. i think the idea has always been that buffing it would encourage more tanks to go dps rather than doing their actual job, which nobody else wants. the destro dps tank meleeball is already incredibly effective in pub SCs

the formula for mobs is near impossible to calculate because many have special straight dmg abilities or procs
But Divine Fury is ok? Archmage and RP become quite over the top with it. Maybe Grace / Wrath WP too. But we all know that WP requires tons of extra effort when compared to RP. And RP can become a selfsustaining BW(!).

I don't want DF to get nerfed, I just want FO to become more than a meme. Actually, Tanks need a lot of help while leveling, regardless of leveling method. They just require far too much effort and group support. Aggro abilities, Focused Offense etc...reworking all of that, excuse the term, trash would greatly help tanks. Look, I love tanks, but why bother when you have Rambos like WH, WL or WP?
just play SCs, you get a ton of xp and renown for doing your job. advertise on lfg that you're a guard tank lf t1/mid sc, you'll usually be invited pretty quick. in a trio with a dps and healer you can farm massive protection scores

the issue with FO is that it represents a tank who has just tossed all intention of ever being a tank out of the window. you're just a weedy safety version of an mdps. you heavily gimp your team by doing this and so should be gimped yourself in kind. non-dps classes should never be able to match the dmg output of real dps, ever, and it's utterly bizarre when people argue for this. mdps particularly put themselves at massive risk to be able to do what they do - to want their dmg output PLUS tank level mitigation or the ability to heal yourself is ludicrous

DF is fine because of how lifetaps work

arorwne
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Posts: 235

Re: Combat calculations

Post#8 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 pm

tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:19 pm
arorwne wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:11 pm
tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:21 pm focused offense is trash and always has been. i think the idea has always been that buffing it would encourage more tanks to go dps rather than doing their actual job, which nobody else wants. the destro dps tank meleeball is already incredibly effective in pub SCs

the formula for mobs is near impossible to calculate because many have special straight dmg abilities or procs
But Divine Fury is ok? Archmage and RP become quite over the top with it. Maybe Grace / Wrath WP too. But we all know that WP requires tons of extra effort when compared to RP. And RP can become a selfsustaining BW(!).

I don't want DF to get nerfed, I just want FO to become more than a meme. Actually, Tanks need a lot of help while leveling, regardless of leveling method. They just require far too much effort and group support. Aggro abilities, Focused Offense etc...reworking all of that, excuse the term, trash would greatly help tanks. Look, I love tanks, but why bother when you have Rambos like WH, WL or WP?
just play SCs, you get a ton of xp and renown for doing your job. advertise on lfg that you're a guard tank lf t1/mid sc, you'll usually be invited pretty quick. in a trio with a dps and healer you can farm massive protection scores

the issue with FO is that it represents a tank who has just tossed all intention of ever being a tank out of the window. you're just a weedy safety version of an mdps. you heavily gimp your team by doing this and so should be gimped yourself in kind. non-dps classes should never be able to match the dmg output of real dps, ever, and it's utterly bizarre when people argue for this. mdps particularly put themselves at massive risk to be able to do what they do - to want their dmg output PLUS tank level mitigation or the ability to heal yourself is ludicrous

DF is fine because of how lifetaps work
But you are already able to be almost a rDPS that heals itself with a RP or AM. Numbers don't lie.

Regardless, solo, group, PvE, PvP...it's too much to balance. I know that Tanks live by that Prot score, but...they are somewhat meh at large scale and a complete garbage at anything solo.

If you ask me, there are parts of Tank archetype which are quite awesome(body block, Guard, HTL, punt etc), but some parts are just super obsolete. Ok, the entire game's frozen in time(pretty much, for better or for worse), but there simply are classes which are more versatile, more modern and then there are efficient, but basic classes(like, say, BW. Fantastic fun + efficiency, but basic design, you can't really deny that).

But yeah, everything's better in a group. The problem is that I don't really want hard relationship(s) while having a setup group for SCs or PvE would be...quite welcome. I just don't know how I'd combine these two wishes.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Combat calculations

Post#9 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:43 pm

arorwne wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 pm
tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:19 pm
arorwne wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:11 pm

But Divine Fury is ok? Archmage and RP become quite over the top with it. Maybe Grace / Wrath WP too. But we all know that WP requires tons of extra effort when compared to RP. And RP can become a selfsustaining BW(!).

I don't want DF to get nerfed, I just want FO to become more than a meme. Actually, Tanks need a lot of help while leveling, regardless of leveling method. They just require far too much effort and group support. Aggro abilities, Focused Offense etc...reworking all of that, excuse the term, trash would greatly help tanks. Look, I love tanks, but why bother when you have Rambos like WH, WL or WP?
just play SCs, you get a ton of xp and renown for doing your job. advertise on lfg that you're a guard tank lf t1/mid sc, you'll usually be invited pretty quick. in a trio with a dps and healer you can farm massive protection scores

the issue with FO is that it represents a tank who has just tossed all intention of ever being a tank out of the window. you're just a weedy safety version of an mdps. you heavily gimp your team by doing this and so should be gimped yourself in kind. non-dps classes should never be able to match the dmg output of real dps, ever, and it's utterly bizarre when people argue for this. mdps particularly put themselves at massive risk to be able to do what they do - to want their dmg output PLUS tank level mitigation or the ability to heal yourself is ludicrous

DF is fine because of how lifetaps work
But you are already able to be almost a rDPS that heals itself with a RP or AM. Numbers don't lie.

Regardless, solo, group, PvE, PvP...it's too much to balance. I know that Tanks live by that Prot score, but...they are somewhat meh at large scale and a complete garbage at anything solo.

If you ask me, there are parts of Tank archetype which are quite awesome(body block, Guard, HTL, punt etc), but some parts are just super obsolete. Ok, the entire game's frozen in time(pretty much, for better or for worse), but there simply are classes which are more versatile, more modern and then there are efficient, but basic classes(like, say, BW. Fantastic fun + efficiency, but basic design, you can't really deny that).

But yeah, everything's better in a group. The problem is that I don't really want hard relationship(s) while having a setup group for SCs or PvE would be...quite welcome. I just don't know how I'd combine these two wishes.
dps probably wasn't the best term for me to use - a non-dps class should never have comparable burst to a real dps class. i wouldn't take much from sc dmg numbers, they can be heavily fluffed out by un-impactful aoe and dots

if you find regular tanks mundane play an off tank. as opposed to dps tanks who just try to turn themselves into budget mdps, off tanks still perform their primary role of being a tank whilst offering way more dmg assist than a standard def tank. they're pretty gear dependent but also desirable, many tanks have great abilities that can only be used with a 2h weapon. sm and chosen are both great at this with magic dmg and greatweapon abilities. off ib and bg are great small scale arguably better than def spec. i'm not sure about knight and people will get mad at you if you're not a waaagh spec bo but i think they can still do it small scale

arorwne
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Posts: 235

Re: Combat calculations

Post#10 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:55 pm

tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:43 pm
arorwne wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 pm
tazdingo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:19 pm

just play SCs, you get a ton of xp and renown for doing your job. advertise on lfg that you're a guard tank lf t1/mid sc, you'll usually be invited pretty quick. in a trio with a dps and healer you can farm massive protection scores

the issue with FO is that it represents a tank who has just tossed all intention of ever being a tank out of the window. you're just a weedy safety version of an mdps. you heavily gimp your team by doing this and so should be gimped yourself in kind. non-dps classes should never be able to match the dmg output of real dps, ever, and it's utterly bizarre when people argue for this. mdps particularly put themselves at massive risk to be able to do what they do - to want their dmg output PLUS tank level mitigation or the ability to heal yourself is ludicrous

DF is fine because of how lifetaps work
But you are already able to be almost a rDPS that heals itself with a RP or AM. Numbers don't lie.

Regardless, solo, group, PvE, PvP...it's too much to balance. I know that Tanks live by that Prot score, but...they are somewhat meh at large scale and a complete garbage at anything solo.

If you ask me, there are parts of Tank archetype which are quite awesome(body block, Guard, HTL, punt etc), but some parts are just super obsolete. Ok, the entire game's frozen in time(pretty much, for better or for worse), but there simply are classes which are more versatile, more modern and then there are efficient, but basic classes(like, say, BW. Fantastic fun + efficiency, but basic design, you can't really deny that).

But yeah, everything's better in a group. The problem is that I don't really want hard relationship(s) while having a setup group for SCs or PvE would be...quite welcome. I just don't know how I'd combine these two wishes.
dps probably wasn't the best term for me to use - a non-dps class should never have comparable burst to a real dps class. i wouldn't take much from sc dmg numbers, they can be heavily fluffed out by un-impactful aoe and dots

if you find regular tanks mundane play an off tank. as opposed to dps tanks who just try to turn themselves into budget mdps, off tanks still perform their primary role of being a tank whilst offering way more dmg assist than a standard def tank. they're pretty gear dependent but also desirable, many tanks have great abilities that can only be used with a 2h weapon. sm and chosen are both great at this with magic dmg and greatweapon abilities. off ib and bg are great small scale arguably better than def spec. i'm not sure about knight and people will get mad at you if you're not a waaagh spec bo but i think they can still do it small scale
Ok, that's group oriented. I know WAR is based around 6v6(arguably could be 12v12, but it isn't balanced around anything more than 24v24), but...what if I want to solo? I can solo (PvE / PvP) just fine on any other class, tanks? As I said, they're just unwieldy. You CAN do it, but it's super...meh. And FO, its intended solution, don't help at all here. Super unwieldy.

Look, if a WH / WE can have those self heals, if an AM turns into a self sustaining Magus, if a WL can...be WL(kinda the same, but on a smaller scale, for Mara)...why can't Tanks have some self sustain? WPs, WHs, WLs, RPs, AMs etc...come on, it wouldn't hurt. (Stay Focused or Phantom's Blade + proc heal are good starts)

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