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[Implementation Feedback] A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

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Danielle
Posts: 206

[Implementation Feedback] A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#1 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:38 pm

Foreword/Disclaimer: I am not appealing to a mirror here, both classes are discussed because the skill in question works exactly the same for both of them and holds the same usefulness. and creates the same issues for compositions that would want to run either of these classes. I have also used the skill on both classes having played both albeit not with the same frequency.

One of the things currently being discussed are the marauder and white lion morale roots and how they are important to the meta game of melee vs. ranged compositions. The Witch Hunter and Witch Elf ranged slows could be another way that a melee composition could slow, or try to keep up with ranged kiters. The Witch Elf and Witch Hunter are light armour classes that rely on engaging with their invisibility, however once their first engagement is done they are rather immobile when it comes to chasing in comparison to other mdps who posses the ability to charge. The Throwing Dagger and Snap Shot skills were likely intended as ranged slows that would allow a melee composition with a Witch Hunter or a Witch Elf to quickly switch to a ranged target. Furthermore the Witch Elf and the Witch Hunter don't have a melee slow like all other melee classes. However, the issue is that with their current implementation Throwing Dagger and Snap Shot are basically worthless against a good player. This is because they have a telegraphed animation and cast time, and a strafing enemy that is hit by these skills won't have a slow applied on them. This way either by using a strafe hotkey, or strafing using a mouse, a player can kite strafing at a 1% angle and not get affected by the slow. This is because an enemy showing one shoulder to the back while strafing is considered as being hit in the side rather than the back. Clearly a change to these skills won't suddenly mean Witch Hunters and Witch Elves will be amazing, but at least they would have a functional unique slow that would make them more of a consideration in the future.

There are numerous possible solutions that come to my mind, I will list them by priority of what I think is best, others can discuss, come up with different options, agree and disagree and hopefully we can come to a satisfactory conclusion.

1) Change the WE/WH slows, so that the slow applies when an enemy is hit from the back OR from the sides.
2) Change the WE/WH slows, so that a 40% slow applies from behind and a 20% slow applies when the enemy is hit from a side.
3) Change the way the game interprets where strafing targets are facing, so that a low angle strafe will still result in a an attack/spell from the back being evaluated as an attack from the back.
4) Leave the slow as it is, but give WE/WH an additional melee slow skill.
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Azarael
Posts: 5343

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#2 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:57 pm

Opened for discussion.

For 4), Envenomed Blade and Fervor could serve as hosts for a stacking slow.

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drmordread
Posts: 854

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#3 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:20 pm

I think stacking slows maybe a good idea and basically bring back 2 abilities that both the WE and WH stop using by t4. But not all WE/WH players have a problem with Kiters. Maybe there is a way to change a tactic, so that the envenomed blade/fervor is also a snare? Just Ideas.
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Krima
Posts: 310

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#4 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:52 pm

4 ! adding snare on Envenomed Blade would be nice...We definately need something..WE and WH are on the bottom of mdps charts right now.

Being light armor should give us more tools to handle things..players are sick of spaming AW and hope for crits.
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Theseus
Posts: 519

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#5 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:16 pm

Hm I would go for option 4 too.
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Akalukz
Posts: 610

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#6 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:27 pm

Clarificantion please, if 4 would the snare stack 3x as well or would the skill be gutted? If it stacks what is the suggestion 10% per stack or what? Just trying to figure out the direction.
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Azarael
Posts: 5343

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#7 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:28 pm

Akalukz wrote:Clarificantion please, if 4 would the snare stack 3x as well or would the skill be gutted? If it stacks what is the suggestion 10% per stack or what? Just trying to figure out the direction.
I would have suggested 3x stack, 10 or 15%.

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Koha
Posts: 113

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#8 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:33 pm

I like the idea, but WE already have some kind of gap closers : OYK and the tactic Swift Pursuit which makes Fleet-Footed the best charge ingame in my opinion (1min still). Executions at 30feet (not all for WH indeed).

Why not get Throwing dagger/Snap Shot works from sides with Feinted Positionning ? I personnaly feel that a spammable snare at 65ft is very strong and should correspond to a sacrified CD (one could perma snare 2-3 people) ? If it works 100% time from the sides WH/WE will always snare people et range ?
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drmordread
Posts: 854

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#9 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:40 pm

Koha wrote:I like the idea, but WE already have some kind of gap closers : OYK and the tactic Swift Pursuit which makes Fleet-Footed the best charge ingame in my opinion (1min still). Executions at 30feet (not all for WH indeed).

Why not get Throwing dagger/Snap Shot works from sides with Feinted Positionning ? I personnaly feel that a spammable snare at 65ft is very strong and should correspond to a sacrified CD (one could perma snare 2-3 people) ? If it works 100% time from the sides WH/WE will always snare people et range ?

It's true. The WE has the AoE KD and Fleet Footed. But this is something that has to go to both realms and not just one. or else I see it as a major imbalance.

EDIT: Furthering the idea of this ability linked to a tactic.
Since Fervor is up the Inquisition tree path, change (if possible) the tactic "Prolonged Confession" by adding the slow ability on that. Also since it is halfway up the tree, it requires some investment.
Last edited by drmordread on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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noisestorm
Posts: 1732

Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#10 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:40 pm

While i really like #4 it comes with huge Issues, if you say you say it needs to be stacked for a proper slow. First of all, WH/We are supposed to be glass cannon DPS classes, having them use a low dmg spell for a slow is already meh. Having them use the same bad spell at least 2 or better 3 times to actually get an appropriate effect out of it is a huge dmg loss and also a ridiculous AP drain on a class that already is ap starved in the first place. Also you should not forget that all 3 stacks are gone with 1 single cleanse on top of it!

While i'd like have the spell function exactly like your normal Melee Slow (5/10 sec CD with fixed 40% slow), i'd rather have Snap Shot be a ranged slow with no condition and a 5-10 second CD instead. IF the decision comes down to change the stackable dots, then simply mirror it to become the kotbs slow, but please forget a stacking slow mechanic.

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