[Implementation Feedback] White Lion - Pounce

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wargrimnir
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#11 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:56 pm

Koha wrote:Prop 1 looks the best to me and would solve the need to pounce repeatedly because at the time the WL lands the target is already out of range and the WL has no other solution but to pounce again.

Prop 2 Only the pet would pounce ? combination with Fetch would be nice, but it would be a nerf to the mobility/survivability. Other changes need testing I suppose. Would be sad to loose pounce still, WL are always starving for AP and pounce is a key to save AP for the good target.
It would also have the Loner tactic allow these 3 abilities to be used by the WL when the pet is not active. Which I would hope would be considered quite a boon for those WL who find their pet unreliable at best.

As for mobility/survivability, they currently have the same anti-kiting tools as other MDPS, as well as high base HP and armor. I would wager WL's feel 'squishy' because they're often out of range of guard/heal.
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Gobtar
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#12 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:57 pm

I would like to see suggestion a) implemented however I feel that the snare should be a shorter duration.

Given that the WL as the ability to keep a target permasnared as it is, maybe this isn't asking too much, but I feel that the snare should be a secondary effect that forces the WL to commit, but heavily stalls the pounce so that the WL can commit rather then using it as a secondary snare.

+ 15s Cooldown
+ 50% 2s snare on-cast
+ Increased ability damage

Charges for MDPS are largely used to replace Flees, but to be able to pounce in and pounce out once you finished a rotationhas afforded the WL much more survivability than their MDPS counterparts, given this change will cement it as an opener, I feel that allowing it be a consistent disengage should be discouraged. The WL still has the same escape tools that other medArm-MDPS has.

Should the WL engage "normally" and leave pounce as a disengage then that is a conscious choice and is his prerogative.

The concept of suggestion 2 is intriguing, but as it is WLs and SH (the two "pet classes") can gain real tangible benefits for eschewing their class mechanic, not other classes may chose to forfeit their mechanic for both easier player and real benefits. Because of this WLs should not get further rewarded by forfeiting his mechanic.
Last edited by Gobtar on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Theseus
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#13 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:06 pm

wargrimnir wrote:I would wager WL's feel 'squishy' because they're often out of range of guard/heal.
You are right, they are, but that is due to their mobility and pounce in particular. And due to their role as a high mobility mdps. So the tank just wont be able to keep up, if they dont want to warn the victim. So guard shouldnt be an argument hear I think.
Last edited by Theseus on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andyrion Ulthenair
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#14 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:09 pm

And pet! The pet cant be guarded so even if you stay with your tank you lose 30-40% dps and all utility with long cd and high ap cost resummon.

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magter3001
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#15 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:19 pm

Spoiler:
Why not do something similar to Shadowstep in WoW for rogues?

Pounce on the target + increase speed by X amount for 4-5 seconds.
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Bozzax
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#16 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:31 pm

Q to op what will be the counter play to 2x WLs or a 1-2 RDPS assisted WL that lands on you with CC and get full burst off on the clothie?

We know some of the cloth healers have 2.5s group heals so they will not be able to stay on 100 feet.

We know rkds + pounce will be comboed and tanks will need time to react as well as use defense actions. How would the recent Fusion fight look if Sorc could not ease pressure by kiting? Because this will disable kiting just enough for other more potent CC to land etc.
Last edited by Bozzax on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TenTonHammer
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#17 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:33 pm

Bozzax wrote:One small question to op what will be the counter play to 2x WLs or a RDPS assisted WL that lands on you with CC and get full burst off for the cloth healers?

We know some of the cloth healers have 2.5s group heals so they will not be able to stay on 100 feet
Detaunt, guard and challenge?

You missed me + crippling strikes?


Thier exists options


Furthermore with a CD on pounce knock backs will mean something vs WLs now
Last edited by TenTonHammer on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Theseus
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#18 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:35 pm

Bozzax wrote:One small question to op what will be the counter play to 2x WLs or a RDPS assisted WL that lands on you with CC and get full burst off for the cloth healers?

We know some of the cloth healers have 2.5s group heals so they will not be able to stay on 100 feet
A guard that looks after the healers? Or some cc before the WL jumps.... only two of several options.
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wargrimnir
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#19 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:47 pm

Bozzax wrote:Q to op what will be the counter play to 2x WLs or a 1-2 RDPS assisted WL that lands on you with CC and get full burst off for the cloth healers?

We know some of the cloth healers have 2.5s group heals so they will not be able to stay on 100 feet
I would imagine if 2-3 DPS classes successfully close in and focus on you, then you die.
How is this relevant? Discussions should involve at least 6v6, not 1v3.

Pounce range is 65', healers have 35' of group heal range (85' of ST heal range) that WL would need to close, and that 35' being the front line a WL would be subject to the rest of your group before being able to close in on a back-line healer. Positioning and teamwork protect the cloth wearers.
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Bozzax
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Re: White Lion - Pounce

Post#20 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:53 pm

It is relevant question as that change with added snare gives you working assist RDPS + WL.

There is a huge diff btw a pounce which can't be avoided and x dps closing in on you that you can kite/prekite.

Im not sure I could pull of 65 feet positioning and manage to 2.5s group heal efficiently. There probably are a fewthat can manage this. 30 feet is about 2 secs running right?

Oh guys pre perme debuff damage on all WLs can't be considered counter play. Also I seriously doubt tanks will be able to react, be in guard range quickly if I'm to try stay out of WLs range. Having tanks in BL isn't really an option either imo
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