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[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

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Bobbiom
Posts: 219

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#121 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:00 am

Keinhoran wrote:I managed to read 5 pages of this topic about morale gain and morale loss.
My question to the devs is this:
Do you feel that both factions have the same tools in burning the morale of their opponents in wb/grp vs wb/grp scale?

Not that I am a dev but..
Order actually got the most powerful morale drain in the game, which is Kotbs m4 called '' Solar flare ''.
Solar flare drains ALL morale from those who are hit by the m4 ability.

Order also got BW with a m4 called '' The burning head '', drains 600 morale.

Not sure what the morale gain rate is atm in ror but it seemed to be fine back in live.
It is devastating to mess around with morale gains when there is a bigger picture to it, specially when it is a balance factor between order vs destro.

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Karast
Posts: 554

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#122 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:46 am

Bobbiom wrote:
Keinhoran wrote:I managed to read 5 pages of this topic about morale gain and morale loss.
My question to the devs is this:
Do you feel that both factions have the same tools in burning the morale of their opponents in wb/grp vs wb/grp scale?

Not that I am a dev but..
Order actually got the most powerful morale drain in the game, which is Kotbs m4 called '' Solar flare ''.
Solar flare drains ALL morale from those who are hit by the m4 ability.

Order also got BW with a m4 called '' The burning head '', drains 600 morale.

Not sure what the morale gain rate is atm in ror but it seemed to be fine back in live.
It is devastating to mess around with morale gains when there is a bigger picture to it, specially when it is a balance factor between order vs destro.
Burning head is a waste of a morale spot, and having morale drains as m4 abilities but morale gain as tactics is just bad design.

The issue with the destro morale tactics is that they are most slot tactics for those careers, because getting fast defensive M4's and then rotating them is huge.

It is one of the reasons that BG's are so weak despite having some good tactics, and abilities of their own. It's hard to compete with the morale tactics.

Saying that order has m4 morale drains to counter destro morale gain just doesn't work. It takes us longer to get to M4, and then even if we strip that morale, you can regain it faster than we can strip it again. It is a non function strategy.

Even though the knight morale strip is extremely good it is rarely used outside of bigger warband setups, in a similar way that axe slam on IB is rarely used. Tanks have to use defensive M4's, if you want any kind of sustain.

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Thayli
Posts: 134

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#123 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:40 am

Thing is, in a WB vs WB or more setting, you don't get to M3 or M4. In 95% of the cases, fights are over about 10 seconds after people reach M2, often even before that. Not to mention that running groups with Shamans and Marauders gimps you in many other ways.

Additionally, regarding all the whine. Why do people expect that their pug warband full of WH and WL stand a chance against a full premade WB specifically geared for morale dumps/drains, given equal numbers? While I might agree that there are some slight discrepancies regarding morale gains in small scale, in large scale it's a L2P issue. Both sides have the tools, yet people aren't using them.

As for counters, 1 or more AM can get someone to M4 out of combat before a fight even starts, and very fast when actually in combat. KOTBS Solar Flare, anyone? Not to mention, I see no warbands with a BW setup. Embrace the Flames + any pump into M2 Ruin in destruction is 1200 x amount of BW undefendable damage to the entire frontline, reachable in a good 10s (Sorc does not have this). Yet people just pug it up and expect to win against people that don't.
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ


[Phalanx]

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spikespiegel84
Posts: 303

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#124 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:45 pm

Order bomb crews always wiped entire warbands, when made properly. I still remember in t3 and always have to play really carefully when encountering them now. And that is a setup that Destro can only counter, not mirror or compete with either. Kings own and Beavers farmed for hours with it. It's plain history.
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Osred
Posts: 412

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#125 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:50 pm

In t3. Destro, without access to the massive full array of morale pump tactics. T4 is of concern here, not T3 which nobody plays anymore.
Osri - 40/79 - Runepriest
Osarion 40/82 - Swordmaster
Osgrim 40/74 - Ironbreaker

dontcomplainx
Posts: 91

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#126 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:01 pm

Thayli wrote:Thing is, in a WB vs WB or more setting, you don't get to M3 or M4. In 95% of the cases, fights are over about 10 seconds after people reach M2, often even before that. Not to mention that running groups with Shamans and Marauders gimps you in many other ways.
hmm so tell me why Haojin ask to his tanks use moral tatic, jewels, belts with moral? a little bird just told me that :)1

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Thayli
Posts: 134

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#127 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:08 pm

dontcomplainx wrote:
Spoiler:
Thayli wrote:Thing is, in a WB vs WB or more setting, you don't get to M3 or M4. In 95% of the cases, fights are over about 10 seconds after people reach M2, often even before that. Not to mention that running groups with Shamans and Marauders gimps you in many other ways.
hmm so tell me why Haojun ask to his tanks use morale tatic, jewels, belts with moral? a little bird just told me that :)1
To get to M2 ASAP, which is also why we run the moral tactic on SQH, morale pump on Shammies, etc... Stretching out the fight to get M3/M4, even on tanks, is a risk and we almost never do it. It's better to just M2 bomb while preventing the enemy from doing the same.
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ


[Phalanx]

dontcomplainx
Posts: 91

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#128 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:13 pm

Spoiler:
Thayli wrote:
dontcomplainx wrote:
Thayli wrote:Thing is, in a WB vs WB or more setting, you don't get to M3 or M4. In 95% of the cases, fights are over about 10 seconds after people reach M2, often even before that. Not to mention that running groups with Shamans and Marauders gimps you in many other ways.
hmm so tell me why Haojun ask to his tanks use morale tatic, jewels, belts with moral? a little bird just told me that :)1
To get to M2 ASAP,
Perfect answer, you just said what i'm saying here :) destro build morals faster than order because of tatics like destined for victory and youz see me blok' dat', Thanks for your answer! :lol:
No cherry picking - Penril

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Thayli
Posts: 134

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#129 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:22 pm

dontcomplainx wrote:
Thayli wrote:
dontcomplainx wrote:hmm so tell me why Haojun ask to his tanks use morale tatic, jewels, belts with moral? a little bird just told me that :)1
To get to M2 ASAP,
Perfect answer, you just said what i'm saying here :) destro build morals faster than order because of tatics like destined for victory and youz see me blok' dat', Thanks for your answer! :lol:
You do realize there is a tradeoff to this, as well as your side having similar tools (you can get key morales out of combat,even)? Running morale tactics means we are not running other, potentially stronger ones. We are not using other classes that would perform better without morales. We gear an entire warband towards this, of course we will reach M2 faster than you.

Honestly, all I see you doing is trying to prove Destruction is better without accounting for the tools your side has, or setup. Try using those first in a proper group before you complain.
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ


[Phalanx]

dontcomplainx
Posts: 91

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#130 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:26 pm

Spoiler:
Thayli wrote: of course we will reach M2 faster than you.
Your honor, I have nothing more to say.................
Stop cherry-picking - Penril

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