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[Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

After feedback has reached it's viable limit, it will retire here to keep the main section clean and tidy.

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Ugle
Posts: 484

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#141 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:00 pm

Spoiler:
Still see backline healing doks like Alinka top heal statistics in scens so cant be all bad. Squishy, ye probably, but can't have it all ;)
Off topic, not contributing to the discussion, this thread still follows the forum rules.
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freshour
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#142 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:06 pm

Yeah it isn't hard to get top heals if you are a good healer. I think the baseline of a DoK/WP is still decent. You still spam group cleanses, you have almost no burst healing potential anymore. So a backline WP/DoK can be "fine" - but a backline AM/Shammy will spit out numbers similar to a DoK/WP did on live. So while sure they are "fine", even going full willpower/healing power your numbers aren't close to AM/Shammy and RP's and Zealots are still very solid. A zealot can actually make a DoK be viable back line, but it also can turn a shammy into an animal.

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Loans
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#143 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:13 pm

freshour wrote:Yeah it isn't hard to get top heals if you are a good healer. I think the baseline of a DoK/WP is still decent. You still spam group cleanses, you have almost no burst healing potential anymore. So a backline WP/DoK can be "fine" - but a backline AM/Shammy will spit out numbers similar to a DoK/WP did on live. So while sure they are "fine", even going full willpower/healing power your numbers aren't close to AM/Shammy and RP's and Zealots are still very solid. A zealot can actually make a DoK be viable back line, but it also can turn a shammy into an animal.
You got the point
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Jinxypie
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#144 » Tue May 30, 2017 8:53 pm

Ugle wrote:Still see backline healing doks like Alinka top heal statistics in scens so cant be all bad. Squishy, ye probably, but can't have it all ;)
Engi can top heal chart, but it doesnt make him good healer. Same with magus fluf dmg. Hes considered worst class for a reason. DOK has realy poor if any kiting ability. He cant cast sh*t on the go. No aoe detaunt like other healers, yet hes forced to stay close to the figt due to endless mechanic starvation (he cant just chug a pot or equip SE ring for better regen) and no utility outside m2. Zealot can stagger or silence, shammy can silence and snare things. Dok can just look on his melee silence ability in his spellbar that he will never use. And now theres no reason to even bother spending points outside healing tree. WP can atleast go for wounds buff. DOKs options are trash. Just my 2c but i still love him.
DoK RR77, Chosen RR80+, Choppa RR70, WP RR65

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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#145 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:10 pm

Jinxypie wrote:
Ugle wrote:Still see backline healing doks like Alinka top heal statistics in scens so cant be all bad. Squishy, ye probably, but can't have it all ;)
Engi can top heal chart, but it doesnt make him good healer. Same with magus fluf dmg. Hes considered worst class for a reason. DOK has realy poor if any kiting ability. He cant cast sh*t on the go. No aoe detaunt like other healers, yet hes forced to stay close to the figt due to endless mechanic starvation (he cant just chug a pot or equip SE ring for better regen) and no utility outside m2. Zealot can stagger or silence, shammy can silence and snare things. Dok can just look on his melee silence ability in his spellbar that he will never use. And now theres no reason to even bother spending points outside healing tree. WP can atleast go for wounds buff. DOKs options are trash. Just my 2c but i still love him.
Yeah... I wouldnt use SC charts as a viable measurement... I hope on my Chosen and can use things like Dreadful Agony as well as Discordant Fluctuation and spam Rending Blade and get big damage... Not top the charts but I can easily come in top 3... Now did I actually DO anything? Not really... Those auras are largely fluff damage and Rending blade is good, but its FAR from any true "pressure" being applied when an AM can just throw a HOT up and significantly outheal any DPS those things can put out...

Ive seen Magus roll through a battle for Praag and just get ridiculous damage numbers but have zero death blows and not do much at all... meanwhile a Sorc will have like 1/5th of the total damage output but like 15 death blows - because its all single target.

That is the fallacy and in fact, id rather they completely ditch the damage and heal parts of the "scorecard" because they are SOOO misleading its just ridiculous...
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Loans
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#146 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:32 pm

Wp/doks can be top heals but his heals not always are "useful" like aoe engy/magus on damage.
On AM i can really save someone when is focused, on WP i can only hope the target don't have the Squig heal debuff.
Ah we want talk about his pount? Most of time don't work , the only good thing is that i take some fury by using that skill.
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Tesq
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#147 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:52 pm

well

-melee rec should make no dmg but be undefitable it's from live i said that

A) you need to front line basically
B)cost ap and spam it may be hard if
-ap drain
-spammed a lot ap heal

have it requrie to land is very bad considering you're strengh is suboptimal; sovereign fixed this with rec proc and additional +2 regen.
With out using the sovereign chalice (gave +10) i used the t4 influence one i had to spam the melee rec ad i was very on the border all the time with g-spam.
Here the rec problem make WP/Dok unreliable in all those situation where they have to spam and dont care about the rest; also dok situation is even worst compared to wp vs ranged dps)

-no parry skill
-no 20% heal more on parry
-rdks to face
-SM dsebuffing 600 spiritual on my 800 ..... (hitting me like a truck).

also dont be able to spam make absorb on crit less usefull.
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Alfinnete
Posts: 549

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#148 » Tue May 30, 2017 10:24 pm

WPs need shield =) Lore hammer!
Spoiler:
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Darosh
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#149 » Tue May 30, 2017 10:29 pm

Tesq wrote:
Spoiler:
well

-melee rec should make no dmg but be undefitable it's from live i said that

A) you need to front line basically
B)cost ap and spam it may be hard if
-ap drain
-spammed a lot ap heal

have it requrie to land is very bad considering you're strengh is suboptimal; sovereign fixed this with rec proc and additional +2 regen.
With out using the sovereign chalice (gave +10) i used the t4 influence one i had to spam the melee rec ad i was very on the border all the time with g-spam.
Here the rec problem make WP/Dok unreliable in all those situation where they have to spam and dont care about the rest; also dok situation is even worst compared to wp vs ranged dps)

-no parry skill
-no 20% heal more on parry
-rdks to face
-SM dsebuffing 600 spiritual on my 800 ..... (hitting me like a truck).

also dont be able to spam make absorb on crit less usefull.
I assume this is out of a pug perspective?

Every single thing you have listed can be countered with basic coordination, composition, min-max'ing (that includes having several gear sets in your bags - theres no swiss-knife setup) and on the fly adjustments of your tactics.

As to the sustained healing: you aren't meant to be able to singlehandly heal a group in engagements that have you face any level of coordinated play.
And, generally speaking, if you notice your class struggles in a certain department you can build your group accordingly.

I'd take the current state of WP/DoK over their live iterations and the snoozefest they have enabled any day of the week.

On a sidenote: I do remember your name from live. You did play on badlands, didn't you? Happy to see old folk, moreso I am happy that I can recall your name (my memory is like a **** sieve).
Congratulations.

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Tesq
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#150 » Wed May 31, 2017 8:24 am

im not against rdk in general i do not like dok have to face indirect thread which WP do not.

-Mara pull is not a thread ( taunt + move out of range is esaier to avoid than the wl pet which can be call back after being cc or can just be sent to pull while while the focus is onto another target)
-Magus/sorc /squig dont have any form of CC which hurt you
-you have access after detaunt nerf to the parry and a 20% heal proc on parry mean you can front line better than dok and melee is your only problem due above lack off destru CC

i had played both in live, WP life is many times easier of a dok. In live the only exeption was mara heal debuff which was uncleansable. Also rkd ninja got from 2sec to 3 sec in 1.4.7 which make the difference higer.
As a wp you had to go melee, rec, turn yoru tail, return backline. AS dok this resulted everytime in a rkd and a focus on you instead...

If you wanna play front line you can't bitch about your positioning ; that's what wp can do most of times dok cant. Also even talking about stuff WP have to raise only 1 resistence due magus/sorc debuffing spiritual so also the investiment required for wp is lower than a dok.

Idk what you mean with the general statement that "everything can be countered" yes evrything can BUT why my dok requrie more awareness and more stuff to face than what a wp should? also thats an opinion if you play a backline dok which is not possible if you have to spam g-heals.

Dok and wp do not face the same ammount of threats. Aka dok is harder to play than a WP.
Also no there should no counter you should do WP/DOk should be able to ignore to some extent dangers like these if they wanna rec in in melee
Still why WP have 1 more tactic than all other classes in game?

These are real issues ( i am from karak azgal/norn btw).

P.S another hole in the system to work on is the fact that be more near the front line healer you cant loose tiem detaun; smart opponetn which get you too near the front line just waited you to be near 1 sec duretion of your detaunt and kD you making ueless have a detaunt. Detaunt should be totally changed on both classes

A) because max detaun 9 target which in front line or regardless everywher in rvr is too much limiting for a class that cant kite as good as the others.

B) Can be bypass by smart ppl silence/kd/rdk prevent you from detaunt for 3,5/4,5 seconds

Armor buff should be rewamped into a DMG reduction which do not stack with guard when the class is fixed to be able to frontline better.
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-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

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