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[Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

After feedback has reached it's viable limit, it will retire here to keep the main section clean and tidy.
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th3gatekeeper
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Re: 22/4/2017 Black Guard class change Feedback

Post#41 » Sat May 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Marsares wrote: - Make Bolstering Anger also apply to its Dark Protector
- Replace the armour element of Force of Fury with something that isn't redundant given the prevalence of armour pots and bump the critical reduction somewhat
- Remove the damage component of None Shall Pass as 126 is hardly noticeable, and turn it into a group wide stat-buff (somewhat similar to the Nature's Blade of a SM)
- Give it a PBAOE morale stripping morale - this would be its main unique selling point for a WB as Chosen/BO doesn't have it and Destro by and large doesn't have it.

Also, please review Monstrous Ruin and Blade of Ruin as they remain underwhelming for a DPS spec.

1) I agree. For a "capstone" this is very selfish and not that attractive.
2) Agree. Though I would just rather have FOF be a flat 45% (NOT 45% of) and remove the armor %...
3) I still think None Shall Pass should be mimiced to replicate SMs WODS... Then I would put this back on tier 1 and put FOF up to tier 3 (again) but the buffed version - 45% less chance to be crit, not 45% OF your current chance, but how it was...

Monstro Rending - The problem I see with this and Pitless strike is the HIGH hate cost coupled with Crimson Death's high hate cost... The problem with Pitless Strike is that its ST. The problem with "wounds debuff" on Hastened Doom is that it cant be used at beginning of a fight.

Blade of Ruin - was removed in Malice for the knockdown - a VERY attractive tradeoff IMO. Dont really care to see Blade of Ruin again.

A weapon skill buff is something that would greatly help the BG and his Dark Protector... Like IB's "Watch an Learn".
Sulfuras - Knight
Viskag - Chosen
Ashkandi - Swordmaster
Syzzle - Bright Wizard
Curz - Marauder
Andrithil - Blackguard

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tazdingo
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Re: 22/4/2017 Black Guard class change Feedback

Post#42 » Sat May 13, 2017 3:37 pm

monstro rending hate reduction could be fun... it's currently (i think?) the ONLY spammable tank aoe in the game, that is if you can keep generating enough hate. i'm just imagining a lotsa choppin BG theory build...

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wargrimnir
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Re: 22/4/2017 Black Guard class change Feedback

Post#43 » Sat May 13, 2017 4:54 pm

Geniuses. We don't have feedback threads so you have a convenient place to leave a hot steaming turd on Day 1 changes. You know this.

Go test, I'll unlock this thread in a week if I remember to.
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wargrimnir
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#44 » Wed May 31, 2017 6:50 pm

Feedback is open for these changes.
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th3gatekeeper
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#45 » Wed May 31, 2017 9:26 pm

wargrimnir wrote:Feedback is open for these changes.
Thanks Wargrimnir! Sometimes its best to let people cool their jets, test, and come back rather than theorycraft changes (I am guilty of this myself).

Since BG changes I have ONLY been playing my BG - both SNB as well as 2H to really dig into the changes. Overall, I love them. Its really made BG much more of a "respectable" choice. I think the two biggest changes for 2H were the KD (Get Down!) as well as Shield of Rage applying to your Dark Protector.

I do, however, see some areas that are lack luster when looking at BG builds and options. So here are my thoughts on what could be improved:

1) Hastened Doom (tactic): Everytime I respec 2H, I just cant bring myself to use this. BG is VERY tactic heavy already, basically NEEDING to use Filled with Fury as mandatory. Due to using a 2H I feel forced to also use Rugged. For guard mitigation, I feel forced to use Anger Drives me. Which gives me ONE tactic slot open. Due to the "Hate Hungry" feeling of BG, I have been toying with tactics such as Thirst for Death or Simmering Anger, or even Efficient Slaughter... I feel that without these Hate generating tactics, my BG is VERY hate starved... Or, because we ARE squishy... Ive have been toying with tactics such as Terrifying Foe or Malek's Bulwark... We have SO many good options (which is GOOD!) but because of the high competition here, Hastened Doom is not worth the slot...

Point being. I cant justify spending one of my precious tactic slots on a wounds debuff that I cannot reliably proc early in fights - since its off a crit, which we need Crimson Death (hate cost) + Spending hate to generate (Filled with Fury) to get our crit up TO crit... This often requires substantial build up time, meaning our target often has >1k health missing anyways, so a wounds debuff has its purpose defeated a little...

THEN, having to use 1 of 2 abilities that are deeper in my "rotation" to generate AA haste (P.S. or M.W.) COMBINED with the fact that you lose AA while using Enraged Beating (our main source of hate generation besides our DP taking damage) all this creates a very poor "synergy" where its just not worth the cost.

Hastened Doom Solution: Swap the effects. This tactic COULD be worth while IF
- The 120 Wounds debuff came from Murderous Wrath and Pitless Strike. Because it could be used at the beginning of the fight. The downside to this, is that is loses its AoE ability, so I would look at swapping Pitless Strike here with Monstrous Rending. So this allows you to use M.W. at the BEGINNING of a fight (AP cost not hate) to proc a S.T. Wounds debuff... However once you get Hate up, you can use an AoE via Monstro Rending. THEN...
- The 50% AA increase came from Crits.

Now THIS creates a nice Synergy of tactics. You use Wounds debuff beginning of fights, then you get C.D. Going as well as Filled with Fury, to give you crits which increase your AA speed.

This would be a "worth considering" tactic for me. Currently our tactics are FAR too valuable, and the clunkiness of this just doesnt warrant a tactic slot IMO.

2) Elite Training (Ability): Going SNB, this really only helps in PVE. The fact that it applies to your DP is great, but I honestly dont even notice when I use this on my DP because its eaten up SOOO quickly. Its a great PVE tool against NPCs that dont attack fast, but in RVR, this is gone in less than the GCD it takes to apply it.. In SCs, it lasts SLIGHTLY longer but the short "impact" combined with long CD - leaves MUCH to be desired here...

Elite Training Solution: Consider making this more of a buff for X seconds, rather than only "4 attacks". Possibly... Something like "For the next 4 seconds, you will easily Parry (and disrupt) attacks made against you. Also applies to your DP". Now this provides a valuable buff worthy of a 30 second CD and high Mastery cost. This will actually make this less impactful to PVE, it will likely be ~ the same in SCs, but where this REALLY helps is in RVR when someone is getting NUKED. YOu can toss Shield of Rage AND Elite Training on them, to greatly alleviate damage. Shield of Rage has "scaling" issues in RVR but any better than it is, and it would be OP I think. So E.T. would be a great RVR tool for SnB tanks.

3) Force of Fury, None Shall Pass and Wave of Scorn: I combined these because of them being in the same tree. FOF is lack luster because of it only reducing crit chance by a few % AND the armor buff is redundant to pots and other buffs...
Wave of Scorn is good, however the high CD and high AP cost, just make it feel so lack luster... Ive tried multiple builds with this and when I use it, I am AP starved and its a BIG CD...
None Shall Pass - IDK... Its a great solo defensive tool, but no group benefits. It generates hate (not something SNB needs) and its only a solo-selfish buff to make you tankier (something BG doesnt really need). It just doesnt scream "capstone worthy" to me...

Force of Fury, None Shall Pass and Wave of Scorn SOLUTIONS:
- FOF. I really liked THIS as the capstone and it brought back to its additive glory (lol). In reality... It makes your chance to be crit go to 0%... So it means any crit you take - relies heavily on the opponents crit % (which can still be considerable!) so I dont think it was OP this way, especially if it were a capstone... It applying to your DP really gave BGs a nice "Umf" they needed to spec ALL the way up the tree.

- The OTHER FOF option could be too look at mimicing Knights "Vigilance" a bit... or something mixed with Chosen's Oppression... You could replace the armor buff with a flat 15% less damage, and then keep FOF Crit % as a multiplicative. This would provide ~7-8% less chance to be crit AND 15% less damage. Which now makes this a more desired ability (if you didnt want to make it 45% additive)

- None Shall Pass. I really think this one should be tier 2 ability. Its not as good (imo) as "Cant hit me" (I know its pros and cons here but I still think its not as good) so putting it at tier 2. SnB doesnt have hate issues IMO, so the hate generation is MEH to me but a nice 50% block tactic... Can be used as an "oh ****" button, warrants a Mastery point but is in no way a "Capstone" ability to me... If it stays here, I cant see anyone speccing FULL Loathing to get this but I CAN see someone going all the way up the tree to get an improved FOF and then grabbing this along the way as well.

- Wave of Scorn. This (to me) should be a tier 1 ability and available to any BG who specs into this (2H or SnB builds which right now 2H doesnt really get this due to it basically requiring RR60+ to get because you need CD, which is high in Malice). Also, I REALLY think the AP cost should be dropped to 25-30 AP. 55 is just too much. Even IB's mirror ability costs 25 AP as tier 2 ability, and the CD is 20 seconds and damage scales with grudges... So it stands to reason a "tier 1" version wouldnt be AS good... So I really think the BG's base of 284 damage vs IB's max grudge 445 is fair... Then a 30 sec CD versus a 20 sec CD is fair... But ONTOP of this... having 2x the AP cost... Its just not as useful.... SO I advocate for a 30 AP cost (higher than IBs), 284 damage (less than IBs max) and 30 sec CD (10 sec more than IB) is fair for a tier 1 - reliably used by both Malice builds, Anguish builds, and ofc Loathing builds....



My FINAL "2 cents" would be looking at Filled with Fury... This would be the controversial piece. IMO the 5 second buff is clunky. Id rather take 10% crit with 10 second uptime than 15% crit with 5 sec uptime. The reason is, you use 1 GCD to get the buff (say CD) and then likely use Enraged Beating to generate hate (30 of it you just spent on CD to get crit up) and now you just used up basically the entire duration of the buff. It just feels like your constantly in this mode of "spend hate, enraged beating, spend hate, etc" without getting to pepper in some other fun stuff in rotation... I think making Filled with Fury 15% for 10 seconds is OP... But I think it allows for more FUN play when you get a few more seconds added to that buff to enable you to drop a few other abilities inbetween your never ending Enraged Beating cycle... Especially as 2H (which is who primarily gets this tactic) because of the high cost of CD...


Overall though, I am VERY much enjoying BG with the changes. These are the areas I feel like would make the class Synergize better and not be as "clunky" in rotations and group benefits - both in RVR and SC as well as open up more build options for the class (both SNB and 2H)
Sulfuras - Knight
Viskag - Chosen
Ashkandi - Swordmaster
Syzzle - Bright Wizard
Curz - Marauder
Andrithil - Blackguard

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Marsares
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#46 » Wed May 31, 2017 10:26 pm

<< mental health warning - long post >>

I've also been exclusively playing my BG the last few weeks and do enjoy most of the changes as it gives more versatility in builds as we're not as much locked into a few useful specs. It allows some more tinkering and experimenting, which is always good.

However, there are some areas that are lacklustre. In order to outline my argument I will give a brief overview of each type of game-play. I appreciate that you do not consider balancing around some of these, but for completeness it is important to understand how the class performs in a rounded manner.

Solo / 2-men:
You can either go more offensively focussed with a 2-hander (offensive talis, Malice focus, tactics: Hastened Doom, Filled with Fury, Anger Drives Me and Unstoppable Fury) or more defensively focussed with SnB (offensive talis, Anguish focus, tactics: Anger Drives Me, Unstoppable Fury, Soul Killer and Shielding Anger).

The self-heal in the form Bolstering Anger helps with self-survivability, although you really need to min-max with other regen gear before it becomes a viable spec and even then it is likely to be only good for solo roaming or solo holding BO objectives. In it's current form it's more a nice-to-have.

I personally liked the SnB one as a body-guard type of spec that focusses on buffing/debuffing with a degree of damage provision, whilst providing survivability to your DP in the form of Elite Training and Shield of Rage.

Conclusion: the class is solid and gives at least two viable builds.

Six-men:
I haven't tried this as much as I would have liked, but when I did, I ran one of the two specs outlined above. Given that most of the BG buffs and debuffs are single-target and AOE matters less in a six-men situation, coupled with the ability to do a good degree of ST damage with decent survivability through high parry%, it does feel that the BG can compete with a BO in a 2/2/2 set-up although a Chosen remains mandatory given its group utility.

Conclusion: the class is in a decent state and is starting to give the BO a run for its money.

AOE Warband:
This really is where the class falls down. In principle, the BG has the ability to become the tankiest of all tanks I firmly believe, but this is at the expense of any meaningful group-wide utility. And this is where I believe you have missed the plank with your changes, as by allowing Elite Training, Force of Fury and Shield of Rage apply to its Dark Protector, you have enhanced the ability of the BG to be a body-guard in a small scale situation, but when WBs collide none of these abilities bring anything meaningful.

Let's assess them in turn.

The armour element of Force of Fury is largely redundant as it does not stack with armour pots. Yes, it gives 200-odd additional armour - which is nice in an armour meta - but in an organised WB where everyone runs with armour pots this is not worth a GCD. Crit reduction is hard to come by in this game, but even my glass-cannon Sorc (RR43 I believe, in crappy gear) only has 11% chance to be crit. 5.5% reduction is meaningful, but as we are starved for career points I never could justify taking FoF.

Elite Training is rather nice in small-scale as 4x guaranteed parry could mean life or death, especially for a cloth class, but even there it gets eaten up by auto-attacks too often. In WB 4x parries just gets totally eaten up by either AA or fluff AOE damage. Again, it there is no noticeable survivability boost to the DP in a WB play.

Shield of Rage suffers from the same issue as Elite Training: alright in small-scale, but a 625 single-target bubble is not worth a GCD in WB-play and thus doesn't add anything to the survivability of the DP or the wider group.

It seems to me that you have tried to give the BG a place in a WB by trying to address its AOE damage. I've tried all variations of 2-hander BG in a WB with Phalanx, and we could simply not justify it. Yes, a BG can dish out some ok-ish AOE damage given that it's a tank, and maintain relatively high parry (through RR speccing and Anger Drives Me) but it just does not balance out its reduction in survivability, even more so as it remains a tank and is expected to guard a DPS.

Therefore, it is sub-par in both damage (compared to a real DPS) and survivability (compared to a SnB tank) - as it should - but as a result it doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table other than Crimson Death, which is gimmicky at best. A Jack of All Trades and a Master of None. We consistently felt that a 2-hander BG + DPS is a liability compared to a SnB BG + DPS compared to what it brings to the table (ok-ish damage and Crimson Death).

Conclusion: unless you firmly believe that CD is a game-changer, which we as Phalanx dispute, there still is no need to take a 2-hander into a BG. Even if it was a viable spec, one 2-hander BG would suffice. SnB has high survivability, but does not bring much to the table in group-utility and thus a BO/Chosen remains the preferred option.

So, after that wall of text... what would be my recommendations? They remain largely the same as my previous ones.

Anguish Tree:
1) Make Bolstering Anger apply to its DP given that it's a cap-stone ability. Given that it's 290hp per 3s this feels reasonable as there's a high cost in career points associated to getting here.
2) Consider either upping the value of Shield of Rage somewhat so it becomes more useful in large-scale fights, or perhaps consider repurposing one of the less used tactics (say: Crush Vitality) which allows it to become a group-wide bubble.
3) I have to agree with the3gatekeeper on Elite Training - it just gets eaten up too quickly with AA and fluff AOE. I would support his suggestion to turn it more into a time-duration based buff for parry/disrupt/dodge, akin to Wall of Darting Steel but with shorter duration and without the damage component as it also applies to the DP.

Loathing:
4) I would support th3gatekeepers proposal around turning Force of Fury into an ability akin to the Knight's Vigilance ability by replacing the armour buff with a flat reduction in damage. This may imply that it'll have to become a T3 ability again.
5) I agree with th3gatekeeper that Wave of Scorn should be a Tier 1 ability, as having an AOE snare would provide some more group utility in either a 2-hander or SnB spec. Furthermore, I do agree that the AP cost is excessive and should be lowered.
6) None Shall Pass is my real bug-bear. I love it as an ability and it gives a real "Oh Sh!t" ability to use to buff our survivability - at the cost of nothing being able to be much else. However, it does nothing for the group and the damage is fluff at best. As per my previous post, I would like to see the damage element removed and replace with a group-wide stat buff similar to the Sword Master's Nature's Blade. Shift it to T2 as well.

Malice:
-) I don't really have any suggestions here as I think the tree is in a good place after the recent changes.

Additional Thoughts:
The meta for WB play is really around morale-building and dumping in a synchronised fashion. Destro lacks any meaningful AOE morale stripping abilities. Give the BG a M4 akin to the Knight's Solar Flare as neither the Chosen/BO has it and it would become the unique selling point to get at least one BG in a WB.

I believe that the abovementioned changes will help to solidify the role of a BG as a value-adding body-guard and thus make it stand out from other tanks in small-scale, whilst providing it with a more sought after role in WB's (either 2-hander or SnB) by providing it with more group utility (e.g. easier access to Wave of Scorn, group stat buff through None Shall Pass if SnB, an an AOE morale strip).

In general, the class has taken a step forward with the recent changes and although I generally remain the only BG in Phalanx (as I will not reroll) I personally find the class really enjoyable to play. So much that I haven't played any other classes in earnest. It is a case of fine-tuning some abilities now - rather than largescale changes - which will give the BG a sought after role in all types of game-play and thus allow it to compete with a BO/Chosen.
Karak-Norn /// Asildur - RR100 WL /// Marsares - RR95 AM /// Nirnaeth - RR64 SW

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Tesq
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#47 » Wed May 31, 2017 11:13 pm

shield of rage on DP: working fine i assume; is protecting from all type of dmg, 10 sec CD make it reliable enough; help mitigate dmg from all source also from dots, high burst, i can say good enough, is worth lower your hate as long it protect DP from all dmg; tough tend to explode immidiatly even in small scale so suffer from every day absorb problem it dosen't scale as with a %.
A solution would make it an absorb % (not a dmg reduction so ye slightly worst but it would scale at least)

elie training on DP:i've conflict regarding this; main problem is the long CD; avoiding only 4 hits mean it need to be up every 10 sec not 30 to counter burst which are done mostly every 10 sec or so. Either way 10 sec would give too many ap to the group so ye; maybe need more internal balance but a cd reduction. Is also lack luster regarding dodge as SW have a RKD when you want move back dont have elie training protecting from rkd can really hurt sometimes (not you; your dakr protector). I found it instead very good to counter wl pull or subsequentially burst. Could really save some ppl life but need dodge label, maybe 1 stack more.

FoF on DP: force of fury suffer from not reducing the enemy chance to be crit; everyone is stackig to some extent Futile strike this mean that the more you're DD is better the more the skill became badder.

it would be clear understand how FoF work btw :

-does it remove 45% of " your chance to be crit"
-does it remove "45% chance to be crit after the enemy chance to crit got addeded" so [(your + enemy ) -45%]?

this is quite the point because either as panic button or as support tool in the first way is useless ; remove 5% chance to be crit every 50% of time is very very low considering all the thing BG have to do in the meanwhile and it's a ST buff; also considering the update time for 50% (so in first case would be definetly not worth) if is working as in the second case then is alredy fine; i dont see much a difference in using it so i suppose is number one
In addition instead buff armor may be better provide an armor pen reduction since the value you have do not stack with potion (pre change recive -45% chance to be crit was alredy good enough; since there is no more a flat value but is a proportional reduction a armor pen may be taken in considariont instead an armor buff since the 2h build may use FOF but wont benefith from the armor due not going very high in the mastery and genrally NSP is not worth spending so many point so if you go mid you stop at aoe snare


The BG spec is also heavily def tactic dependand in whatever build. Especially 2h vs s+b use the same def tactics and with all probability also disrupt should have the same position as parry (so on 3 pt) or either both tactic should be made 1 and also dodge should be added)
2h left mastery is basically a SM with out wall of darting steel; a coevalent tactic fixing the avoidance from all mid and right mastery would make it more reliable. IT will also free 1 tactic spot for stuff like auto attack debuff which BG cannot slot because is paper with out parry, disrupt, and 1 toughness tactic.

2h KD: as said in kd thread you are loosing 1 mastery point and make all your builds harder since all BG skill are higer to take than a IB so again would be better have the middle KD be usable also as 2h in some way rather than spend 1 point in left wing:
This also because you have no access to 2h KD if you dont play left mastery while you can play regardless 2h even if going mid +right which is what im doing right now with the changes.

aoe snare: gona add an additional note about the snare, after the changes i basically stopped taking it. It's from a lot of time very unreliable, it have along CD for a snare duration which it will never matter (cleanse , immunity etc) and is a cone snare.
A very quality life improvement would be make it 5 sec dutation 10 sec CD at least it would be used more often.
You can cleary see what cc are good and bad from their CD. ALL cc which are on a 10 sec CD are currently on all the the class which are regarded as the best for that type of CC. Generally speaking all aoe snare in game are too good. Form of. CC which give no immunity should never have less than 20 sec of cd if the snare last 10; so either this is wrong and BG snare need to be improved or all other aoe snare need a nerf.

Crimson death
Also gona ad a second additonal note regarding crimson death; since till the change happened to his duration no feedback was given: The skill is lackluster considering it cannot be reaplied before the duration end onto other target and the cone nature of the debuff make very easy miss some one of the enemy(which can be a immidiatly assist swap)
If the debuff would had been a 360 degree a 10 duration on 10 CD would had beene ok, but as i told back long ago not be able to swap the target of the debuff more ofter is limiting the BG. Kobs is auto debuff in 30 feet at least bg should be able to keep debuff ppl if he willing to spend 1 GCD more and 30 hate.
The CD should be either remove or lower to 5 sec.

2h mastery/summary:
the changes made worst 2h while boost s+b. Due FOF change is even harder spec left wing becasue you lack the disrupt from right mastery and you only have 30% parry if you take it from mid. The kd addition was made for a st utility on a aoe /rvr mastery which make build bg harder and limiting only yor 2h utility and bind it to left mastery (less choice , less fun).
Basically nerf FoF back to live version killed the left mastery viability you are made of "paper" .

Suggestion:
-shielding anger and anger drives me should be made 1 tactic and buff also dodge (all 30% or 40/20 /20...preferable all 30; this will mirror wall of darting still in BG way, less avoidance but passive) put in middle mastery (but should not stack with hold the line and this will fix both 2h durability and s+b exesive durability), alternativly lower shielding anger to 3 pt as was done for parry so you can have anyway all avoidance in every build, that way 2h should be more reliable.
-FoF should be reworked into an armor pen reduction and/or only fix the crit reduction to also ignore 45% criti chance of enemy that is hitting you.
-shield of rage: maybe absorb a dmg % ( worst than a pure dmg reduction), basically this would be a dp buff solutin even for orvr
-elite training: could be the dp solution to small scale , need a lower cd and ap reduced accordly; probable also dodge label.
-2h kd : make mid mastery kd usable in some way by 2h (bg is wasting too many points goign up and down for fixed skill all too far from each other), and i dont mean in regard to investiment to have good stuff. There 2 build you can do on malice, one is ST assist the other is aoe debuff. Have to move into this mess of disposition and also loose another mastery point is not easy; usually the kd is on the more accessible mastery. The ib 2h spec kd shoud be an exeption not a rule, this jimp BG on 1/3 of his builds while a ch/kobs will always have that.
-aoe snare: worst aoe snare in game, other BG can confirm...... mirror it better with all other snare in game; if keep cone make it more spammy with duration = CD
-Crimson death: basically remove CD or give 5 sec (first would be better and would give some trade for put out aoe in rvr while lowering your defense as most of tank can put aoe up with out jimp them self like bg does (and they do even better dmg).
Last edited by Tesq on Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Esperflame
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#48 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:04 am

I personally think the Static Crit reduction values should come back. If you guys thought they were too high reduce them, don't run that part into the ground and let it become useless. Maybe reduce the top end to 30% or even 25%? Doing a percent of a percent is kind of silly because it makes the ability less useful to those who actually work to keep their crit chance to be hit down and lets those who don't give a crap benefit by a crazy amount. Just an idea is all. There are some changes I think you've made to BG that really make sense and a few other I disagree with, but this was the one I wanted to bring up.
Karnak (Ironbreaker), Hadebrandt (KotBS), Quigon (Swordmaster), Rakthraka (Black Orc), Thulza (Chosen), Braerithryn (Blackguard)

"Yeah, I play all the tanks. I've got beef!" - Me

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Aleteh
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#49 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:18 am

Torquemadra wrote:
Esperflame wrote:I personally think the Static Crit reduction values should come back. If you guys thought they were too high reduce them, don't run that part into the ground and let it become useless. Maybe reduce the top end to 30% or even 25%? Doing a percent of a percent is kind of silly because it makes the ability less useful to those who actually work to keep their crit chance to be hit down and lets those who don't give a crap benefit by a crazy amount. Just an idea is all. There are some changes I think you've made to BG that really make sense and a few other I disagree with, but this was the one I wanted to bring up.
Its an ability with a 50% uptime, effects the Dark Protector and you expect it to do 150% extra on top of what chosens require a tactic to do? (your 25% suggestion) It wasnt a flat reduction on live and it isnt going to be here, especially as a 5 point ability. It gets stronger the more a tank builds on a tanks specifications as opposed to a lol no crits on me ability that a 2hander could pick up easily in a dps build. It doing a static amount was a bug, that bug was fixed.
Increase CD to 30-40 seconds then, i personally wouldn't mind a longer CD if the ability was meaningful. The current FoF is near useless and not worth the point.
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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Black Guard Mastery Tree

Post#50 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Im not sure if this will be frowned upon, but it does have relevance to this BG discussion and it revolves around how to make BGs more "desired" for group play.

Right now, we all know 1 major issue with BGs is that Chosen + Mara basically bring everything to the table that BGs do... Toughness/STr buffs and debuffs, armor debuffs, wounds debuffs, super punt, KD, you name it...

We also all know that Mara/WL are over tuned but what I wanted to bring HERE was specific to the BG.... And its this proposal: The TLDR is: BG/IB should have their armor debuff SEVERITY swapped with WL and Mara...


Right now Mara/WL "base" armor debuff is 1000.
IB/BG is 800 base at MAX... This should be swapped to:

800 base on Mara/WL and
250/500/750/1000 BASE for BG and IB.

This will mean that BG and IB bring something VERY special to the table in terms of being part of a melee train - that would give them a valid spot even in a Chosen/Mara group!

This really isnt that much of a change, but I think its enough to where a BG would be a sought after class (IMO). It also VERY mildly nerfs WL/Mara (which would be a very positive change).
Sulfuras - Knight
Viskag - Chosen
Ashkandi - Swordmaster
Syzzle - Bright Wizard
Curz - Marauder
Andrithil - Blackguard

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