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[Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

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Wdova
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#61 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:53 am

Or make it first tick on apply - so you can get hit - tick - hit- tick, hit - tick, tick, tick, tick. 8-)
A aha ahahaha aaaahahahaa :lol: :lol:
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peterthepan3
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#62 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:03 pm

kweedko wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:57 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:14 am
An ability that can DoT crit for 700/800+ at fast intervals - with no CD - should not be uncleansable. It also messed up somewhat with covering one's heal debuffs (particularly from WH PoV).
Problem, with skills like stackable spamming dots like Fervor lays in thing, that every time that you add a stack the dot timer resets and you have to wait 2 sec for first tick(so if you spam it 3 times first tick gonna be only in 5 sec, anyone rather spam pure dmg skill than that) - my suggestion is make those stacks ticks independent, so they could tick together but with each other small ticks. Or make it first tick on apply - so you can get hit - tick - hit- tick, hit - tick, tick, tick, tick. 8-)

(btw. Maras have the same skill "Rend")
That's a valid point, but you can weave other abilities into the stack application if DD is what you want at that moment (e.g. a target will die sooner than anticipated). From observation, and from what experienced WE/WHs have told me, the damage at maximum stacks is incredibly high but is offset by the effort and planning required to achieve it.
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kweedko
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#63 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:04 pm

Wdova wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:53 am
Or make it first tick on apply - so you can get hit - tick - hit- tick, hit - tick, tick, tick, tick. 8-)
A aha ahahaha aaaahahahaa :lol: :lol:
Yo doing it wrong it's gonna be like A-ha a-ha a-ha ha ha ha. :lol:
DDZEALOTFTW!

And remember No FUN allowed in ROR.

Save the DDZEALOTs proposal viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28103&p=318980#p318980 8-)

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kweedko
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#64 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:11 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:03 pm

That's a valid point, but you can weave other abilities into the stack application if DD is what you want at that moment (e.g. a target will die sooner than anticipated). From observation, and from what experienced WE/WHs have told me, the damage at maximum stacks is incredibly high but is offset by the effort and planning required to achieve it.
That still gonna be high dmg in the end, but no so low in start and mid, so gonna be more viable then just spamming torment or razor strike - which now better choices to hit single target cause of their base basedamage.(if wh spamming fervor atm the his doing it wrong just wasting the gcds) ;) Especially when you have to spec in third tree for crit dmg tact anyway.
DDZEALOTFTW!

And remember No FUN allowed in ROR.

Save the DDZEALOTs proposal viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28103&p=318980#p318980 8-)

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#65 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 pm

kweedko wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:11 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:03 pm

That's a valid point, but you can weave other abilities into the stack application if DD is what you want at that moment (e.g. a target will die sooner than anticipated). From observation, and from what experienced WE/WHs have told me, the damage at maximum stacks is incredibly high but is offset by the effort and planning required to achieve it.
That still gonna be high dmg in the end, but no so low in start and mid, so gonna be more viable then just spamming torment or razor strike - which now better choices to hit single target cause of their base basedamage.(if wh spamming fervor atm the his doing it wrong just wasting the gcds) ;) Especially when you have to spec in third tree for crit dmg tact anyway.

If you're focusing squishies who blow up in 2/3 GDS? Spamming Fervor/EB (or any dot for that matter, even on classes like DPS AM/Engi) is going to be a waste of GCDs.

On targets that are going to survive longer? Guarded DPS, healers....combining that backloaded DoT damage - with DoTs potentially ticking for 700/800+ - with your DD damage is going to be incredibly beneficial.

In regards to the crit damage tactic, that is something we may want to look at eventually.
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kweedko
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#66 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:27 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 pm

If you're focusing squishies who blow up in 2/3 GDS? Spamming Fervor/EB (or any dot for that matter, even on classes like DPS AM/Engi) is going to be a waste of GCDs.

On targets that are going to survive longer? Guarded DPS, healers....combining that backloaded DoT damage - with DoTs potentially ticking for 700/800+ - with your DD damage is going to be incredibly beneficial.
I bet it's not ticking that much in average, with max str and squishi target with no guard probably, but why need that when with those stats you can torment about 1.5-1.8 k for that target. With guard and some armor or tougness(which affects dots the most) this gonna be meh 200-300 dmg :mrgreen:

I can test it today if needed. ;)
DDZEALOTFTW!

And remember No FUN allowed in ROR.

Save the DDZEALOTs proposal viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28103&p=318980#p318980 8-)

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kweedko
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#67 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:12 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 pm
If you're focusing squishies who blow up in 2/3 GDS? Spamming Fervor/EB (or any dot for that matter, even on classes like DPS AM/Engi) is going to be a waste of GCDs.

On targets that are going to survive longer? Guarded DPS, healers....combining that backloaded DoT damage - with DoTs potentially ticking for 700/800+ - with your DD damage is going to be incredibly beneficial.

In regards to the crit damage tactic, that is something we may want to look at eventually.
Ok i've done some test, so Fervor - and Burn heretict, just not worth it, even spending all points to that tree - their base damage is still meh, and can't overdps Torment or RS spam. Even trial by pain do more pressure on the target. So thoshe who told you that it is good, are wrong. 8-)
DDZEALOTFTW!

And remember No FUN allowed in ROR.

Save the DDZEALOTs proposal viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28103&p=318980#p318980 8-)

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Lileldys
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#68 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:50 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:03 pm
That's a valid point, but you can weave other abilities into the stack application if DD is what you want at that moment (e.g. a target will die sooner than anticipated). From observation, and from what experienced WE/WHs have told me, the damage at maximum stacks is incredibly high but is offset by the effort and planning required to achieve it.
WH has Opener + Seekers blade + blessed bullets + BAL + Burn Heretic as covers.
WE has opener + wracking pains + kisses + sac stab snare + heart render debuffs.
Then you also have teammates snares and their debuffs to cover. What more do you need to cover??

Yes, the EB/Ferv needs so pre-planning. Firstly you have to build 3 stacks, which is 3.3s of globals. In 99% of 6v6s for example, the WE/WH is going to be focused, so you stack and then you've gotta kite cause you've got f all defenses with getting focused.
Then, you only get 2 ticks from the 500-1000 damage before you need to re-apply. You have 2 seconds to reapply the DoT, In that time, you can run out of AP, get out ranged, get punted, get CC'd ect ect.

The problem is if you make it cleansable, then who is going to use it in small scale over raw damage burst that can't be cleansed? You could make it cleanse 1 stack, but when I spoke to Aza about it he would have to re-write the code for one of the handlers, can't remember which.

Surely WE/WH Higher DPS is to cover for the innate weakness of Light Armour. After all, that's why all the groups just took mara/choppa, even though WE has higher DPS, survivability is much more important. Now their Core DPS is cleansable, why take them at all?
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Lileldys
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#69 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:53 pm

kweedko wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:12 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 pm
If you're focusing squishies who blow up in 2/3 GDS? Spamming Fervor/EB (or any dot for that matter, even on classes like DPS AM/Engi) is going to be a waste of GCDs.

On targets that are going to survive longer? Guarded DPS, healers....combining that backloaded DoT damage - with DoTs potentially ticking for 700/800+ - with your DD damage is going to be incredibly beneficial.

In regards to the crit damage tactic, that is something we may want to look at eventually.
Ok i've done some test, so Fervor - and Burn heretict, just not worth it, even spending all points to that tree - their base damage is still meh, and can't overdps Torment or RS spam. Even trial by pain do more pressure on the target. So thoshe who told you that it is good, are wrong. 8-)
Go read the tooltip damage for both skills and come back.

Envenomed blade - 1438 per global
Agonizing Wound - 617 per global

You still going to say Torment is higher DPS? Lol.
Who Cares? - Pjsalt

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#70 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Lileldys wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:50 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:03 pm
That's a valid point, but you can weave other abilities into the stack application if DD is what you want at that moment (e.g. a target will die sooner than anticipated). From observation, and from what experienced WE/WHs have told me, the damage at maximum stacks is incredibly high but is offset by the effort and planning required to achieve it.
WH has Opener + Seekers blade + blessed bullets + BAL + Burn Heretic as covers.
WE has opener + wracking pains + kisses + sac stab snare + heart render debuffs.
Then you also have teammates snares and their debuffs to cover. What more do you need to cover??

Yes, the EB/Ferv needs so pre-planning. Firstly you have to build 3 stacks, which is 3.3s of globals. In 99% of 6v6s for example, the WE/WH is going to be focused, so you stack and then you've gotta kite cause you've got f all defenses with getting focused.
Then, you only get 2 ticks from the 500-1000 damage before you need to re-apply. You have 2 seconds to reapply the DoT, In that time, you can run out of AP, get out ranged, get punted, get CC'd ect ect.

The problem is if you make it cleansable, then who is going to use it in small scale over raw damage burst that can't be cleansed? You could make it cleanse 1 stack, but when I spoke to Aza about it he would have to re-write the code for one of the handlers, can't remember which.

Surely WE/WH Higher DPS is to cover for the innate weakness of Light Armour. After all, that's why all the groups just took mara/choppa, even though WE has higher DPS, survivability is much more important. Now their Core DPS is cleansable, why take them at all?
You make good points, but the group consensus was that the abilities (given that they are core and spammable with no CD) should not be uncleansable: there exists a plethora of DoTs that have a multitude of effects, and that are of equal importance to their class (e.g. Signal Flare with tactic, on a 20 second CD), yet none of them are uncleansable. I think we would much rather fine tune the abilities (if deemed necessary) than introduce uncleansable dots that can crit for 800+ (and quickly, too).

I don't deny the ramp up time, and maybe that is something that could be looked at improving via tactic augmentation. However, WE survivability/role in 6v6s (I've seen top WEs simply have nothing to counter the pressure of double SL; light armor blows) is a separate issue altogether to an uncleansable, spammable DoT with potent ticks. My 2c.
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