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[Pre-Production] White Lion

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facundo7777
Posts: 402

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#41 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:17 am

Spoiler:
Imo converting wl into wb class is wrong way becuase wl archetype was to kill squishes on the backlines with pounce and pet.
In my opinion all wl players pick wl because we are playing small scale or solo (and we dont like wh). If anyone of us would like to play wb class i will relog bw or slayer (dont have this one) because they are still more usefull for wb plays.

If U decided to create aoe spec this way i can live with that but i wont use that.

So one "stance" is kind of loner

Second one is pets gaining str and ws from our ws and str

So make third one as "pet stance" where pet gaining str and ws from defensive stats like on live. To make one stanace pet based.

Imo this changes are interesting but most of wl players will reroll on wh's or tanks to play solo
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Gunma
Posts: 16

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#42 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:11 am

1. Do you play the class in question?
yes, approaching rr60

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?
no

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?
solo or tagging along in a wb, sometimes 6man. i like being independent.

4. Your feedback :
- not interested in woodsman tree, very 1-dimensional aoe spamming, could be op in wb fights when having good backup
- you have to spec aoe tree for a knockdown?
- solo or tanky aspect severely downgraded - no toughness stance, no self-healing (or absorb bubble) like most other classes, no baiting strike tactic to buff armor
- pet still this slow? fetch is still useless then. you could ugrade speed training and give it a second bonus like +100wounds to pet and get rid of full-grown
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#43 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:26 am

Don't play WL (cept a sub 20), have a 40/40 mrd
Play more or less all archetypes
etc etc don't have time rly

You can't have a spirit based mdps class w50% bypass, +50% crit damage and passive +50% damage on a spam ability with 3s booster dot RoR.builders - White Lion

Guys ffs
Last edited by Bozzax on Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#44 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Math has been added to the bottom of the OP to reflect the difference in damage values between existing Marauder and theoretical WL. This includes reasonable spirit buffing and debuffing, i.e. chosen aura, SM Wrath of Hoeth as well as green 660 armor pots but does not include Zealot armor debuff. With Sweeping Disgorgement in play the numbers would skew further in Marauder's favor.
Spirit Strikes Math: This is with both classes having 1050 STR, SC weapons, and the ability formulas that are already present on both classes. 22% genesis spirit resistance after buffs/debuffs. 34% Beastlord + Winds Impervious

Slashing Blade 495 spirit damage (With TTS)
Whirling Axe 192 * 7 spirit damage (With TTS)
= 11-17% mitigation

Mara Demolition 452 physical damage
Wrecking Ball 347 * 7 physical damage
Mara ~77% armor pen w/ tactic
= 10%, 16%, 23% mitigations (light, med, heavy)

Tearing Blade tactic adds physical damage, and refreshes itself so you usually gain little from it when spamming slashing blade in AoE.
Edit: math behind the math.
Armor values (conq/dom): 1100 / 2200 / 3300 + 660 armor pots
Mara WS = ~ 375 + 50% bypass tactic = ~77% armor pen
BL/TWI = 561, 571, or 580 resists depending on class
Genesis = 367 - 376 resists depending on class
SM debuff = ~359 in normal orvr build
Chosen res buff = ~321 in normal orvr build (can get up to 359 by 13pt right tree)
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Mausini
Posts: 78

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#45 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:50 pm

dansari wrote: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:38 pm Tearing Blade tactic adds physical damage, and refreshes itself so you usually gain little from it when spamming slashing blade in AoE.
Tearing Blade does not refresh as far as I remember. You need to wait until the dot ended before you can reapply it. Awful tactic.

Tosher85
Posts: 41

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#46 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:52 pm

I've played all the classes in the game.

6man: U r making a melee class with a strongest burst even stronger by adding frenzy to 2nd tree and wounds debuff to the build. I dont want to say anything about 3xPounce combo etc. I'ts too long to discuss.

Warband: A free +25% bonus damage buff + spirit based abs making WL much better than Mara in terms of dmg output. Adding 50% resist bypass (+sm/ktobs debuff) will break the game. Dmg reduction will be around 9% + toughness for all classes. As for Mara, it will be from 9% to 25% depends on armor type + toughness. And the last one, moral drain tactic is a good thing, but first of all u need to balance all the other things about dmg output, healing, ability to defend, cc and utility skills(like shatter limbs). And only after this kind of balance changes u can add this tactic to any of the classes u want. Unless u wonna break the wb balance completely(it is already broken).
p.s. Dont forget about another thing that every next new set will give us armor bonus and almost no resist bonus... so mag dmg will always be better than phys(Sm/Bo difference).

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Fallenkezef
Posts: 1483

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#47 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:38 pm

I would suggest "trained to stay at home" be renamed.

Bear in mind, in the lore most WL do not have a pet kitty anyway.

So I'd suggest an ability name to reflect that.
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DanielWinner
Posts: 727
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Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#48 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:02 pm

I don’t play WL.

I’ve played Mara, mostly aoe build.

I speak from both Warband and Small-scale perspectives.

My feedback:
I’ve already expressed this opinion in team chat but, I think, I should post it here too.

I believe, with those changes WL will get a completely new possibility to perform in warband environment which would also positively effect whole realmVSrealm balance. Probably, its solo playstyle and build would be different with those changes but people can adapt or request some tweaks that would help.
A lot of people state that ORvR and Warband play in particular are the main part of the game and everything should come to this. Remember, our endgame are forts and cities, it’s clearly an environment of massive numbers. Therefore, personally I believe that every class should have an access to every part of the game: both small-scale and mass RvR. Thereby, WL’s aoe build will be a breath of fresh air for RvR and a good bone for future endgame battles.
Also not to mention, those changes will give WL a guarantee to not become luckluster once we get higher tiers of gear with better defensive numbers (class won’t end up near garbage bin like it did on live) because, you know, spirit damage is much more reliable than physical and it also would encourage synergy between classes since WL can’t debuff it itself – which is really good, our game is teambased after all.
It’s kinda understandable that we really need more classes to be warband viable because even if BT did focus on already “warband-playable” classes such as BW and SL, we would end up in a dreadful and stale meta of 2-3 classes in endgame environment.
I’m all up for WL to have a reliable and competitive WB build which can cause a treat and deserve its spot in WB.
Since Mara has better utility and self-sustain, I don’t mind WL having better damage numbers.

Parts which are questionable:
I can only mention cast time increasers. Those look kinda powerful but I don’t think they must be removed – at max a bit reduced or left as they are because, you know, they require some points and tactic slots, therefore, WLs will have to trade their damage potential for utility. Sounds fair to me. Again: maybe some tweaks but, in general, it might be quite acceptable and give WL a chance of being something better than simple dps-4-bottom-spammer.
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Orontes
Posts: 323

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#49 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:12 pm

1. Do you play the class in question?
Lvl 37 WL

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?
RR +60 Melee squig, RR+70 Magus

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?

Addressing the changes, primarily as an opponent of WLs in the field of play.

4. Your feedback :
The proposed changes seem overzealous. The Merciless Blows tactic is very disturbing. The ability to shift to all spirit damage with its own spirit debuff "Spirit Strike" (not dependent on working with a SM, for example) is disturbing. Reintroduction of AOE knock down with Echoing Challenge. The whole thrust of things reads as only listening to WL advocates, with no resistance to their whimsy.

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Yaliskah
Former Staff
Posts: 1973

Re: [Pre-Production] White Lion

Post#50 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Spoiler:
Veto.

As a reminder. :

"About changes.
Actual balance is not ugly. Many little things here and there need your attention to make the player experience even better. I don’t expect you to reinvent a class (at least atm. Who knows in some years !!!!), so please, use your common sense, stay as unbiased as possible and don’t use a hammer when a little brush is needed.

I beg you to always keep in mind the different gameplay approaches (pug, team, premade, warbands…), and opt for the wisest solution in any circumstance.

(involved ppl, know the link.)


Copy/paste*mirroring is not intended. You knew it. I was clear.

Locked.
Edit Yali. Pending. Probably misunderstood - Mea Culpa. Waiting for clarifications. Re opened.

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