[AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

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Luuca
Posts: 1176

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#31 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:26 pm

bloodi wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:57 pm
And what would be the penalty?

I mean, your design as it is, lets you cast heals as you can do currently and always get a benefit if you use attack abilities, while i agree that most of the time casting an attack spell is a waste of time, in your current proposal, what is the way to play the mechanic wrong?

Because i really dont see any, even the former ab ex had you play a certain way to get benefit from it, what you suggest basically is a mechanic that always will benefit the AM/shaman, no matter what he does.

And again, i do agree that the current mechanic is trash but making a new one that is impossible to play wrong may not be the best way to approach it.
To play my proposed class mechanic wrong would be to play it as every AM Sham plays it right now. That is, ignore the mechanic and simply cast heal after heal after heal or damage after damage after damage and never use or even care about the mechanic points. Conversely, with my proposed changes, you must make a decision to burn your force points at 3 to place a Transfer Essence to augment your heals on a target or wait for the full 15% bonus after two more GCDS/casts. Conversely, if I am dps, by never firing my quicker 15% heal boosted by mechanic group heal, i'm denying some pressure relief for my team healers and wasting a benefit.

in a hybrid spec, rolling 3 damage spells and firing off a 6% boosted single target heal, and 2 HoTs, I then fire of a 6% strikethrough boosted damage skill or CC skill - possibly finally silencing the Zealot.. It makes knowing the enemy target and how many stacks you have important. Ignoring the mechanic - as we all do now pretty much - is playing it wrong. My suggestion simply makes ignoring it a bigger cost to the player and the team - albeit possibly.
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Luuca
Posts: 1176

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#32 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:35 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 pm
bloodi wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:57 pm
And what would be the penalty?

I mean, your design as it is, lets you cast heals as you can do currently and always get a benefit if you use attack abilities, while i agree that most of the time casting an attack spell is a waste of time, in your current proposal, what is the way to play the mechanic wrong?

Because i really dont see any, even the former ab ex had you play a certain way to get benefit from it, what you suggest basically is a mechanic that always will benefit the AM/shaman, no matter what he does.

And again, i do agree that the current mechanic is trash but making a new one that is impossible to play wrong may not be the best way to approach it.
I see what you mean. You still wouldnt be engaging with the mechanic just having it as a fringe benefit.

The first thing you need to define is how do we think the mechanic should play. 1/-1 juggling, not going above 3/-3 or a drawback to sitting at 5 and keeping the mechanic points stored.
I hadn't considered a negative to sitting at 5 points but I suppose it could be diminishing points of you continue to build Force/Tranq beyond 5.. theoretically you could start losing points after the 2nd building ability past 5, making it 4, then 3, then 2 etc. In this way it may not be a negative though as ignoring the mechanic doesn't affect play. That said, if the bonuses were there for the stacks, ignoring them or using them properly and effectively would make skilled players better and those who ignore the mechanic at a slight disadvantage.
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bloodi
Suspended
Posts: 1732

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#33 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:38 pm

Luuca wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:26 pm
To play my proposed class mechanic wrong would be to play it as every AM Sham plays it right now. That is, ignore the mechanic and simply cast heal after heal after heal or damage after damage after damage and never use or even care about the mechanic points. Conversely, with my proposed changes, you must make a decision to burn your force points at 3 to place a Transfer Essence to augment your heals on a target or wait for the full 15% bonus after two more GCDS/casts. Conversely, if I am dps, by never firing my quicker 15% heal boosted by mechanic group heal, i'm denying some pressure relief for my team healers and wasting a benefit.

in a hybrid spec, rolling 3 damage spells and firing off a 6% boosted single target heal, and 2 HoTs, I then fire of a 6% strikethrough boosted damage skill or CC skill - possibly finally silencing the Zealot.. It makes knowing the enemy target and how many stacks you have important. Ignoring the mechanic - as we all do now pretty much - is playing it wrong. My suggestion simply makes ignoring it a bigger cost to the player and the team - albeit possibly.
But once again, thats not a mechanic, that is just a bonus to all your spells, a buff, thats not something you have to prupsefully work around, just pick and choose when to use your spells, like you always did, what you describe is not play a mechanic, is playing AM.

For example, a WE/WH can keep using the skills that produce combo points, for as long as he wants, the penalty to him would be not generating extra combo points, which can be used to generate extra damage, everytime he doesnt spend them when he is at 5, he is penalized in his overall dps. A slayer/choppa can put himself into red for extra damage output but that gets penalized by also recieving more damage himself.

Now, with your proposal, you just heal and when you can, do damage, you are not weaving, you are just doing your job and when you have downtime, all healers have it, can add cc and damage, this is something that i also play Am/shaman for, love that **** but keep in mind, other healers dont have that luxury, wp/dok need to get into melee to do anything sans the lash, rp/zealot need to use their swap stance button to do so.

With your proposal, you dont have to do any of that, you dont get a penalty for doing it, you just do it when you can and always benefit from it. And no, you "choosing " when to use it, its not playing the mechanic.

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Telen
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Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#34 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 pm

RP/Zealot can trigger mechanic and keep that benefit for subsequent casts though. With AM you'd only get a single cast boosted. The drawback is they cant go back and forth and have the 20s cd to get back to dps stance. The current AM mechanic has moved it closer to RP as you can get multiple casts of the same type boosted. That was one of my original complaints that it moved their mechanics closer.
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Telen
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Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#35 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:56 pm

You could have the mechanic bonus limits set at 3/-3 or 4/-4 and get diminishing returns past that point.
1 3 5 3 1 / 1 3 5 3 1
Then you would need to use the mechanic or sit at a reduced bonus.
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Rydiak
Posts: 255

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#36 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:56 pm
You could have the mechanic bonus limits set at 3/-3 or 4/-4 and get diminishing returns past that point.
1 3 5 3 1 / 1 3 5 3 1
Then you would need to use the mechanic or sit at a reduced bonus.
Good idea
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Sulorie
Posts: 3713

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#37 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:00 pm

Ugle wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:07 pm
Easier bandaidfix (at least for heal spec AM/Shams) would be to scale disrupt strikethrough off highest int/willp stat
This is something for all heal classes, not only am/sham. I had no time yet to write down a suggestion here but there is virtually no argument against it. The chance to apply CC or any skill in general on a target should be a matter of how defensive your character is. Defensive characters should have it more difficult to hit. This is true for all archetypes but healers. A full willpower stacked healer without defensive attributes is as squishy as a full offensive one. The difference is, one is killing the target faster while trying to survive. The other one has higher healing values. Both should have the same chance to apply CC.
A healer or tank with high defensive attributes has a lower chance to apply CC, because they can't stack willpower or str high enough.

As a result, healers will face the disrupt or parry check with on average 600 willpower instead 200-250 intel or str. Only glass cannon healers, similar to all other classes, will have the most reliable CC.
Dying is no option.

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Telen
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Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#38 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:27 pm

and heaven knows willpower could do with more of a benefit to spec over defense.
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Sulorie
Posts: 3713

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#39 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:27 pm
and heaven knows willpower could do with more of a benefit to spec over defense.
I am asking myself since live times, why healer CC has to be so unreliable. I just find no answer.
Just for avoidance checks, the highest of either str, bal, int or wp should be taken for calculation. No need for artificial strikethrough stats.
Dying is no option.

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shaggyboomboom
Posts: 1178

Re: [AM] Class Mechanic Tweak

Post#40 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:55 am

Luuca wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:27 pm
shaggyboomboom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:29 pm
i'd say 5% heal crit instead of 5% more healing
As an AM, I already have enough heal crit. I would think the DPS specced AMs would like 5% more heals to offset the -25% healing from DPS tactics a little.. they don't stack enough heal crit for 5% to make a huge difference, but 5% to a HoT or self cast Boon..
DPS AMs don't want to heal. If they did, they would spec heal
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