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IB Time Management proposal

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Sponn
Posts: 184

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#51 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:46 am

CountTalabecland wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:04 pm
Well I won't imagine it will get the devs to change anything, but this does a good job of showing how hellish having a lot of buffs up is.

Most IB abilities are pointless compared to Knight, Potions, Liniment, healer buffs, but something better than 10 seconds on most Crit Buff and Parry would be nice as those are the two things that IBs are objectively taken for, I mean Knight gets 100% uptime on his best stuff and no class mechanic to manage, come on.
This is the sad reality of things.


There is a goldmine of balancing and QOL information here on the forums, which the admins/devs read. They peruse all of it. (Just like I'll probably get a flag for this post or something.)- and ultimately ignore a lot of it. (I'm not talking about ignoring all suggestions, I'm talking about the legitimate well thought out/explained suggestions).


There were suggestions 1 to 2 years before the "free renown respecs" was implemented asking for this exact same thing and it was shot down and ignored.


If they do decide to do any of this I imagine it will be a long ways down the road, and with 0 reference to this original post.

If anything we will probably get some wack ass rework instead of this for IB just like the shitty crit tactic that Chosen got and the "requires shield" thing for vigilance on KOTBS nobody asked for lmao.

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anarchypark
Posts: 1813

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#52 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:53 am

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:56 am
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:00 am
Earthcake wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:27 pm
Spoiler:


10sec is the minimum time to avoid having to recast a buff before it's duration ends (which would have been a trick), but I could have chosen any other time window, the results would have been the same.
Why not 20 or 30 or X ?
Because in 20sec you'd have to use twice as many abilities, in 30sec three times as many and in Xsec, X times as many. Due to rounding, yes you'll find some particular time windows that allow you to fit one more skill in, but good luck only fighting fights that last exactly 50sec (random number used as an exemple) no more no less.

There is no trick here. If you are sure there is one, feel free to correct me.

trick is percentage.
you and others just want buff 10sec to more duration.
OP reasoning is simply '10sec is too short' and brought some percentage, squeezing rotation into 10sec.

my advice is you should set rotation, cycle to 20~30sec.
and buff rotation is second thing.
when to use what is first.
guard swap, challenge, HtL, aoe snare mainly.
so rotation is never same, constantly change but inside start/end of long duration buff.
Again, that wouldn't change the numbers.
But since there's absolutely no way you pulled 20sec out of nothing, you obviously did the numbers.
So post them so everyone can see that there's no problem if we use a 20sec window.

build up rotation
Guarded Attack - Stone Breaker - Vengeful Strike - Inspiring Attack
all 20sec duration.
after that, put Punishing Blow or Earthshatter to track 20sec window.

after build up rotation you are free to do any action inside 20sec.
guard swap, oath friend swap for grudge, grudge spend for Told Ya So. punt, position etc, anything.
pick wisely, when to what.

at the end of PB cd, start build up rotation again.
this time it's full grudge buff.

repeat. it's not easy though.

don't limit yourself to crit buff/guard bot.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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Earthcake
Posts: 86

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#53 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:19 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:53 am
Spoiler:
Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:56 am
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:00 am



trick is percentage.
you and others just want buff 10sec to more duration.
OP reasoning is simply '10sec is too short' and brought some percentage, squeezing rotation into 10sec.

my advice is you should set rotation, cycle to 20~30sec.
and buff rotation is second thing.
when to use what is first.
guard swap, challenge, HtL, aoe snare mainly.
so rotation is never same, constantly change but inside start/end of long duration buff.
Again, that wouldn't change the numbers.
But since there's absolutely no way you pulled 20sec out of nothing, you obviously did the numbers.
So post them so everyone can see that there's no problem if we use a 20sec window.

build up rotation
Guarded Attack - Stone Breaker - Vengeful Strike - Inspiring Attack
all 20sec duration.
after that, put Punishing Blow or Earthshatter to track 20sec window.

after build up rotation you are free to do any action inside 20sec.
guard swap, oath friend swap for grudge, grudge spend for Told Ya So. punt, position etc, anything.
pick wisely, when to what.

at the end of PB cd, start build up rotation again.
this time it's full grudge buff.

repeat. it's not easy though.

don't limit yourself to crit buff/guard bot.
Guarded Attack and Vengeful Strike, really ?
In your ohsoverygood rotation, you already spend more than 25% of your time giving next to no AP to your group. Then add Taunt/Challenge/Sever Blessing for another 30% of your time. With that rotation you'll end up giving less AP than the knight aura, which is most IB do and then they think they can teach others how to play, telling them to use Guarded Attack and Vengeful Strike, two skills you don't wanna spend GCDs on (except specific situation).

anarchypark
Posts: 1813

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#54 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 pm

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:19 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:53 am
Spoiler:
Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:56 am


Again, that wouldn't change the numbers.
But since there's absolutely no way you pulled 20sec out of nothing, you obviously did the numbers.
So post them so everyone can see that there's no problem if we use a 20sec window.

build up rotation
Guarded Attack - Stone Breaker - Vengeful Strike - Inspiring Attack
all 20sec duration.
after that, put Punishing Blow or Earthshatter to track 20sec window.

after build up rotation you are free to do any action inside 20sec.
guard swap, oath friend swap for grudge, grudge spend for Told Ya So. punt, position etc, anything.
pick wisely, when to what.

at the end of PB cd, start build up rotation again.
this time it's full grudge buff.

repeat. it's not easy though.

don't limit yourself to crit buff/guard bot.
Guarded Attack and Vengeful Strike, really ?
In your ohsoverygood rotation, you already spend more than 25% of your time giving next to no AP to your group. Then add Taunt/Challenge/Sever Blessing for another 30% of your time. With that rotation you'll end up giving less AP than the knight aura, which is most IB do and then they think they can teach others how to play, telling them to use Guarded Attack and Vengeful Strike, two skills you don't wanna spend GCDs on (except specific situation).

4 build up rotation is 10sec. which can be applied twice in 20sec.
dps can't do **** without 10 sec of AP battery at the start of battle ?
pump all AP up after first build up or if dps ask it specifically change your rotation.
how did you play when there was no AP pump ?
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

User avatar
Earthcake
Posts: 86

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#55 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:31 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 pm

4 build up rotation is 10sec. which can be applied twice in 20sec.
dps can't do **** without 10 sec of AP battery at the start of battle ?
pump all AP up after first build up or if dps ask it specifically change your rotation.
how did you play when there was no AP pump ?
Well sorry, i thought you posted your actual rotation, so we can learn from you.

I didn't understand that you didn't post anything you were doing at all...

anarchypark
Posts: 1813

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#56 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:35 pm

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:31 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 pm

4 build up rotation is 10sec. which can be applied twice in 20sec.
dps can't do **** without 10 sec of AP battery at the start of battle ?
pump all AP up after first build up or if dps ask it specifically change your rotation.
how did you play when there was no AP pump ?
Well sorry, i thought you posted your actual rotation, so we can learn from you.

I didn't understand that you didn't post anything you were doing at all...

what is your problem? i'm not best IB but i do play it. tanks are my main.
Image
1234f free | 1234f free. 10+10 seconds, free is more important. AP pump is 36t.
though free period mess up often. that's hard part for me.

show me your 'i need 10sec+ buff' rotation.
i'm rdy to learn from other IB.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

User avatar
Earthcake
Posts: 86

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#57 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:05 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:35 pm


what is your problem? i'm not best IB but i do play it. tanks are my main.
Image
1234f free | 1234f free. 10+10 seconds, free is more important. AP pump is 36t.
though free period mess up often. that's hard part for me.

show me your 'i need 10sec+ buff' rotation.
i'm rdy to learn from other IB.
My problem is that you disagree with the fact that 20sec is equal to 2x10sec, and starting from there, it's normal that i ask for ALOT of explanations since, well, you know, it's kinda acknowledged by the immense majority of the world that 20sec is indeed equal to 2x10sec. So if you are right, i'd like to know.

Second problem : You claim to use some skills at the start of the fight only, then go on with another rotation.
Skills can fall into 3 categories :
A - Good, then you want to use them much more than once per fight
B - Bad, then you don't want to use them at all if other skills are available
C - Situational, so i guess you think they are in that category and that the criteria for their usage are met at the beginning of each and every fight but never during the fights

Which is highly unlikely, so again, some explaining would be nice.

And if you wanna know about the skills i would like to use each and every 10sec period, everything is detailed in the initial post.

anarchypark
Posts: 1813

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#58 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:36 pm

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:05 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:35 pm


what is your problem? i'm not best IB but i do play it. tanks are my main.
Image
1234f free | 1234f free. 10+10 seconds, free is more important. AP pump is 36t.
though free period mess up often. that's hard part for me.

show me your 'i need 10sec+ buff' rotation.
i'm rdy to learn from other IB.
My problem is that you disagree with the fact that 20sec is equal to 2x10sec, and starting from there, it's normal that i ask for ALOT of explanations since, well, you know, it's kinda acknowledged by the immense majority of the world that 20sec is indeed equal to 2x10sec. So if you are right, i'd like to know.

Second problem : You claim to use some skills at the start of the fight only, then go on with another rotation.
Skills can fall into 3 categories :
A - Good, then you want to use them much more than once per fight
B - Bad, then you don't want to use them at all if other skills are available
C - Situational, so i guess you think they are in that category and that the criteria for their usage are met at the beginning of each and every fight but never during the fights

Which is highly unlikely, so again, some explaining would be nice.

And if you wanna know about the skills i would like to use each and every 10sec period, everything is detailed in the initial post.

well, 10 sec skills are not short in my playstyle. i was explaining that.
good skills usually have longer CD, short duration. because they're good...
otherwise perma buff happens.
i think there's no bad skill, every skill is asset, you need to find it's place to use.
anyway, i'll read it again to see something to learn.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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Drozen
Posts: 148

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#59 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:42 pm

Ironbreake is in no way shape or form gimped/bad/under performing or having "time issues". If you dont like how you spend your time on the IB then try another tank class out that you may like.

Ironbreaker is one of the strongest and most versetile tanks in the game already overall, so maybe having this "crutch" that you think it has (I do not agree with at all, cool math tho. couldnt care if correct or not) is needed so it simply will not become god mode.. but maybe that's what you want to play?..
LoB & Shitters.

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Inches - Ironbreaker
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Vise - Blackguard
Drozez - KoTOPS!
CasperTFS - Marauder
Drozzen - Warriorpriest
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Tovarich
Posts: 8

Re: IB Time Management proposal

Post#60 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:20 am

Ironbreaker is absolutely not playable. 2 Buffs for strength and armor do not stack with each other and with potions (why are they needed then ?!).
All you will have at the end of the game as the ironmonger is the Greasy Tin Can, which has a million buttons that you don't need.
Oh, you wanted to inflict damage for iron and put on a two-handed weapon? Get ready to spend 2 (!) Of 4 tactics on RIsing Anger and Dwarven Riposte So that you always have grievances! (Perhaps these two tactics could be combined into one, but this is too good for ib, isn't it ?!)

Runic Shield? 30 offense for 600 magic absorption compared to buffs of other tanks is absolute bullshit.
(Google Translate)
Original:
Железолом абсолютно не играбелен. 2 Баффа на силу и броню не стакается между собой и с зельями (зачем они тогда нужны?!).
Всё что вы будете иметь в конце игры за железолома, это Жирная консервная банка, у которой милион кнопок которые вам не нужны.
Ах вы захотели наносить урон за железолома и одели двуручное оружие?Приготовьтесь потратить 2(!) из 4 тактик на RIsing Anger и Dwarven Riposte Что-бы у вас были обиды всегда! (Возможно эти две тактики можно было объеденить в одну, но это же слишком хорошо для иб не так ли?!)

Рунический щит?30 обид за 600 магического поглощения в сравнении с баффамидругих танков абсолютная фигня.

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