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Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

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emiliorv
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Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#121 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:08 pm

knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:17 am
emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:36 am
knick wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:32 pm

dont know how this numbers are calculated but its obvious not the total truth
with fantasy we can have any interpretation to make own point more falid
for example top 10 dd´s - 0 order DD´s but 5 destro (100%) but order has top dd´s?
top 30 are 15 dd´s - 9 destro (or 60%) 6 order
top 45 are 19 dd´s - 11 destro (or 57 %) 8 order
top 60 are 24 dd´s - 14 destro (or 58 %) 10 order

top 10 player - 8 destro (or 80%) 2 order
top 15 player - 11 destro (or 73%) 4 order
top 30 player - 20 destro (or 66%) 10 order
top 45 player - 28 destro (or 62%) 17 order
top 50 - 31 destro (or 62%) player 19 order
top 100 - 56 destro (or 56%) 44 order

>than 1000 points 128 player - 67 destro 61 order
>than 1300 points 83 player - 48 destro 35 order
>than 1500 points 44 player - 27 destro 17 order
>than 1700 points 25 player - 17 destro 8 order

see win rates are nice. But overall order destro comparison by player count shows that destro is represented more often and in higher rankings
You cant be serious trying to use players mmr as any kind of "balance check"....the fact is that you have more chances to win playing order classes, the meta is clear: WL+SL+WP+RP+KOTBS Have the highest winrate.
the amount of games is so small that win rates says nothing about balance. We talk about 1% of server population in ranked games not representing the majority of player. Also we talk about a few 100 games. To measure Win rates we need thousands of games from the majority of players. The statistic gathered from a competitive environment and competitive statistics are not holistic.

In december of 2020 the score of a single city siege was enough FOR YOU to ensure that we had a balance problem...now in 2022 looks like YOUR standard have changed...

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=42663

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Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#122 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:31 pm

emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:08 pm
In december of 2020 the score of a single city siege was enough FOR YOU to ensure that we had a balance problem...now in 2022 looks like YOUR standard have changed...

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=42663
His post was about that ranked is a niche and this doesn't contradicts his older thread about city, which has a much bigger impact on the community.
the amount of games is so small that win rates says nothing about balance. We talk about 1% of server population in ranked games not representing the majority of player
#AllClassesMatter

“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

― John Burroughs

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knick
Posts: 206

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#123 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:38 pm

emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:08 pm
knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:17 am
emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:36 am

You cant be serious trying to use players mmr as any kind of "balance check"....the fact is that you have more chances to win playing order classes, the meta is clear: WL+SL+WP+RP+KOTBS Have the highest winrate.
the amount of games is so small that win rates says nothing about balance. We talk about 1% of server population in ranked games not representing the majority of player. Also we talk about a few 100 games. To measure Win rates we need thousands of games from the majority of players. The statistic gathered from a competitive environment and competitive statistics are not holistic.

In december of 2020 the score of a single city siege was enough FOR YOU to ensure that we had a balance problem...now in 2022 looks like YOUR standard have changed...

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=42663
so wrong + wrong = right? I didn't blame single classes. it was a question mark behind the topic open for discussion. Your argumentation is narrow minded try to present the Ranked statistic result as fact for better performing order classes.
the initial post is still valid to me. 100% win rate is unhealthy and we collected more city's over the days showing that destro won +75% of its citys this days. For Ranked we talk about win rates below 50% for a single class and gathered by a handfull of players.






but to say it in your words
emiliorv wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:01 am
Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 pm 13:2 win for destro in cities, still destro players good, order players bad issue I think
LMAO

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Keep the farming
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[Kraehenfeld] Knick WL RR85+

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emiliorv
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Posts: 1295

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#124 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:11 pm

knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:38 pm
emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:08 pm
knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:17 am
the amount of games is so small that win rates says nothing about balance. We talk about 1% of server population in ranked games not representing the majority of player. Also we talk about a few 100 games. To measure Win rates we need thousands of games from the majority of players. The statistic gathered from a competitive environment and competitive statistics are not holistic.

In december of 2020 the score of a single city siege was enough FOR YOU to ensure that we had a balance problem...now in 2022 looks like YOUR standard have changed...

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=42663
so wrong + wrong = right? I didn't blame single classes. it was a question mark behind the topic open for discussion. Your argumentation is narrow minded try to present the Ranked statistic result as fact for better performing order classes.
the initial post is still valid to me. 100% win rate is unhealthy and we collected more city's over the days showing that destro won +75% of its citys this days. For Ranked we talk about win rates below 50% for a single class and gathered by a handfull of players.






but to say it in your words
emiliorv wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:01 am
Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 pm 13:2 win for destro in cities, still destro players good, order players bad issue I think
LMAO

Image


Keep the farming
Image

Ahh that meme is pure gold...still makes me smile after all this years
knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:38 pmtry to present the Ranked statistic result as fact for better performing order classes.
Yeah, its much better to present the score of a SINGLE CITY SIEGE as a fact of faction imbalance....ranked stadistic is "at least" a stadistic...probably more representative than 1 single city siege.



PD:(i dont see how a marauder is gonna drink his own tears LMAO)

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GamesBond
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Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#125 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:04 pm

Amdus wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:16 am
Spoiler:
GamesBond wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:28 pm
Amdus wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:37 pm

It's difficult to participate in programs where you locked out of it a huge majority due to the requisite of being compliant and have always been "a good boy". I wonder what is the benefit when you recruit people that are supposed to critcise the actual state of many things, but those people you recruit are people that are not defiant and are actually compliant. That could explain the reason behind the lack of changes and how out of scope some of those changes were.
Changes that in some cases got reverted back to the original state or even buffed. Maybe a good first step to have a willfully participant community instead of a whiny one, would be to give equal opportunities and voice to everyone. The best destro players that I know have been muted for petty reasons, almost 99% of my alliance has been muted or banned and we're all people that has played since live and has been around here for 5 years or more. Sorry if I sound brash, but that's really how I see it. How many of us see it, since it has been discussed in multiple discords where all are part of. I don't think this is unknown information at this point, just making it public here for the first time.

This is why the majority agree that the realm champion program is not the best approach when you have forums where everyone can express their oppinions, you need to filter out the pathological whiners but nonetheless there are some gems between the posts.
You want the reasonable answers right? I try to be as transparent as possible, always. Balance feedback where everyone discusses everything is not possible; It's terrible, inefficient and would end up taking ages to do the simplest things. The people who join the RC program are knowledgeable, and nobody is saying that they're the only ones. You're free to apply and to experience it. If you're someone who cannot tolerate different opinions, or if you instantly turn a mature discussion into a tempered toxic one, you will surely not find a spot in that program.

The RC program is here to add the community's input into balance, to help both the team and the community. It's not here to increase the workload, time or stress on devs. This is the closest that we could get to community-shaped balance.

Now if you'd like to keep disrespecting these players who spend their time discussing balance, working on data and arguing for weeks to defend their input, you're free to do so. But just don't call them "good boys", it's really not necessary.

Amdus wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:37 pm The best destro players that I know have been muted for petty reasons, almost 99% of my alliance has been muted or banned and we're all people that has played since live and has been around here for 5 years or more.
Usually when I check the log, the "petty reasons" as you mentioned end up being extreme toxicity, sexism, racism or just the players ignoring several warnings and repeating the same offenses.
I can't apply to the realm champion program because I got banned 3 days followed by a 10 day mute for saying that Joe Biden is a robot. Most warband leaders I know from Destro have been muted atleast once, one of them had the last mute of 45 days. They're not eligible for the spot, despite being the ones that are truly more knowledgeable about the reality of destro.

Most MMO's I know, and back when I was a dev in a wow server, we had a test realm well, to test stuff. We would pick a couple of guilds from each faction to test things out, not saying what you should do, just mentioning an alternative that imo, offers better short term results.

When I go in the main page, I see the birthdays at the bottom. The average age around here must be 30 years old from what I have seen. If calling those that never got banned "good boys" is disrespectful, if saying that Joe Biden is a robot in a general channel gets me banned (Only me though, because everyone was talking about politics and they didn't get banned.) is not a petty reason taking in consideration the age of the average player, well I can't see the point of this conversation. Actually, on a side note, this particular ban that I got kinda makes me wonder why some get away calling us destro CCCP for years while you said that extreme toxicity and racism are not petty reasons, especially when they have done it well, for years. I saw on a previous post that atleast he got a warning, glad to know.

I'm sorry Gamesbond, this isn't personal against you, but I hope this helps you see why the vast majority of destro thinks there's a heavy order bias, we seem to not be equal towards the rules. And OP is the prime example of it. Not that I'm demanding a punishment, he got warned and all of that but I'm sure you get my point, cheers.
No I totally get you, I don't take anything personal.
While I personally agree that some rule enforcements may sound harsh sometimes, we should keep in mind that the game is still rated T (13 years and above) which overrides the average age of the community on Return of Reckoning. It's not our game after all and having an average age of 30 as you said doesn't remove the fact that we also have teens playing.

Putting the age aside and focusing on player behavior; Being toxic, cheating or continuously breaking the rules should be minimal if the average age is high. My point is that age doesn't matter in this case, we all have the greed trait and we all could get angry. I totally get your point but I'm presenting a counter-argument that a higher age should also mean a controllable behavior.

Regarding *insert faction* bias, we're all far over this topic. Reading how both factions argue that they believe there's a bias towards the enemy faction is reassuring that GMs/Devs are on a good path. Breaking a rule on the first time surely has a different action than breaking that same rule on the third time. Keep in mind that GMs have a lot of supervision over them to even think about focusing on a player or a faction, there's no such thing - they don't even think about being biased, they don't even care, they can't really benefit from anything if they are biased and lastly, they cannot be biased due to the supervision. You could be referring to an extremely active GM that used to handle most of the in-game tickets, this GM is on vacation now but you will still see the exact same outcome and sanctions because they work as a team.

We've already went way out of topic, but this thread is over anyway since we've pushed an in-game survey to understand x-realm lockout and how would the community perceive it. If you still believe that your whole alliance was being 'focused', feel free to DM me on Discord with your evidence and I will follow up on the rest.

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Meliannia
Posts: 276

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#126 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:00 am

Garamore wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:00 pm
how ridiculous the original post was.
Hmm so 'ridiculous' all players have now been sent an in game survey by the Powers That Be about the excessive abuse of xrealming and how to tackle it.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#127 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:45 am

Meliannia wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:00 am
Garamore wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:00 pm
how ridiculous the original post was.
Hmm so 'ridiculous' all players have now been sent an in game survey by the Powers That Be about the excessive abuse of xrealming and how to tackle it.
The numbers in the OP were pretty ridiculous, yes.
Dying is no option.

matekszz
Posts: 4

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#128 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:07 am

I will say what i said on live forum wanna class balance? Make class and tactics mirrors

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#129 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:45 am

knick wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:17 am
emiliorv wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:36 am
knick wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:32 pm

dont know how this numbers are calculated but its obvious not the total truth
with fantasy we can have any interpretation to make own point more falid
for example top 10 dd´s - 0 order DD´s but 5 destro (100%) but order has top dd´s?
top 30 are 15 dd´s - 9 destro (or 60%) 6 order
top 45 are 19 dd´s - 11 destro (or 57 %) 8 order
top 60 are 24 dd´s - 14 destro (or 58 %) 10 order

top 10 player - 8 destro (or 80%) 2 order
top 15 player - 11 destro (or 73%) 4 order
top 30 player - 20 destro (or 66%) 10 order
top 45 player - 28 destro (or 62%) 17 order
top 50 - 31 destro (or 62%) player 19 order
top 100 - 56 destro (or 56%) 44 order

>than 1000 points 128 player - 67 destro 61 order
>than 1300 points 83 player - 48 destro 35 order
>than 1500 points 44 player - 27 destro 17 order
>than 1700 points 25 player - 17 destro 8 order

see win rates are nice. But overall order destro comparison by player count shows that destro is represented more often and in higher rankings
You cant be serious trying to use players mmr as any kind of "balance check"....the fact is that you have more chances to win playing order classes, the meta is clear: WL+SL+WP+RP+KOTBS Have the highest winrate.
the amount of games is so small that win rates says nothing about balance. We talk about 1% of server population in ranked games not representing the majority of player. Also we talk about a few 100 games. To measure Win rates we need thousands of games from the majority of players. The statistic gathered from a competitive environment and competitive statistics are not holistic.

https://dotesports.com/league-of-legend ... atter-6271
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveFor ... eeply_and/

i dont say mmr is the key to balance so is win rate not the final answer. Wl for example best win rate? but not in the top 10? Even only 1 in top rankings? While best performing DD´s are obvious on destro WE and SH represented several times in top rankings
Going by stats it safe to say the winrate of classes with a descent players and matches is by far the least unbiased viewpoint presented of what classes win more.

Exceptions are RDPS and classes that have dual mode example dam/ham being aggregated in above list
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Evilspinnre
Posts: 366

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#130 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:24 pm

Why are people still discussing solo ranked stats? They should never be used as a basis for balance.
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