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[Suggestion] Making guard less OP

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

[Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#1 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:41 pm

Hello, I'm just starting a topic here and its all about the "guard" ability.
Is it to strong? Is it to weak? is it perfect as it is? Let's discuss it here if you feel like joining the conversation. ;)
First of all (for the new players) - What is "Guard"?:
Guard is an ability that is tank exclusive. Every Tank class (BO/BG/CH/SM/IB/KOTBS) gets the ability at lvl 10.
Its a bond between Tank and guarded player and splits the incoming dmg (on the guarded player) between both.
So a guarded player only takes 50% dmg of all sources.

The dmg that is taken by the guarding tank(s) is minimal, because it can be blocked and parried (if you are a well equipped def-tank)

My Problem with guard:
Guard is a very, very strong ability. taking 50% of the dmg "out of the game" is already massive!
A Tank-Heal combo is by far the strongest duo ingame. You can see those alot in sc and premades.
They are strong and there is not much that can be done about it.
The healer only takes 50% dmg of all sources and as far as i know there is no way to break the guard except scattering the players all over the place, because guards range is only 30 ft if I remember correct.
This is nearly impossible to do.
Kicking the healer away is a possibilty, but it won't have that much of an effect, cause they will be close enough in no time.(only if you kick him down a cliff or smth like that could work)
Also that guard takes away flat amounts of incoming dmg on the guarded player is very strong.Too strong imo.

And here comes my first approach to a solution:
It would be much nicer if guard would be like a perma-buff on the target, as long as it stays in guard range.
Something like increased armor/resistances/toughness/parry/dodge and disrupt.
Because then, much more counterplay would be possible against this ability.
Reducing named stats by counterabilites would still be possible and therefore guard would not be this overpowered in my opinion. Also it would reduce the pugs vs premade problem in sc, because premades would have to be much more cautious and would be easier to be broken.
I dont think this would affect premade vs premade in a bad way, kills would come easier and you would have to use your detaunt more effectively as a squishy.

My second suggestion:
Making it possbile, to break guard, or disabeling it for a specific amount of time.
Giving dps or supporter classes like magus/engie a guard-breaking ability would be really nice and take some of the Op-ness away. Also this would be a little buff for our engi/magus friends, which are a bit ailing right now. :oops:

Sooo... That's all that comes to my mind right now!
Please join this thread and tell me if you like this suggestion (or if you hate it, or if you are ok with some parts of it and so on.)
If I am wrong with some of the above said, please let me know so I can correct the mistakes.
Last edited by saupreusse on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#2 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:48 pm

Guard just needs counterplay that isn't punts exclusive to chosen/knight and BG and susceptible to immunities from random AoE / roots etc...
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Sizer
Posts: 216

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#3 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:50 pm

I dont know who told you, but guard doesnt actually stack. You can put it on someone twice but only the first tank who put it on will split damage with the player.

As for whether one guard is too strong or not, Id agree with you there, but its an extremely complicated balance move that would literally affect the entire game, and is probably best discussed in a balance forum discussion if/when the devs bring it up (I really hope they do sometime).

As for your ideas, the first would never work, the second is unnecessary as they dont stack, but the third is a solid idea. I wouldnt restrict it only to engy/magus, even if theyre struggling, as then it would require you to run those classes over all others, but some kind of anti-guard mechanic would be interesting.
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Shadowgurke
Posts: 618

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#4 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:55 pm

I think discussing guard can have it's merits, but the fact that most of your knowledge about guard is flat out wrong is a bad starting point for that sort of discussion
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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#5 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:00 am

I alawys did believe guard was stackable 2 times. My life is a lie. Im gonna edit this post. Please tell me what is wrong i really want to discuss about this topic . Thanks
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Gachimuchi
Posts: 525

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#6 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:00 am

Without guard being the way it is... I'd imagine rDPS would be king, as you wouldn't be able to survive the damage before you even close to melee range.
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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#7 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:01 am

Hmm maybe. But some counterplay would be really nice. Just need to figure out how...
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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#8 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:08 am

Shadowgurke wrote:I think discussing guard can have it's merits, but the fact that most of your knowledge about guard is flat out wrong is a bad starting point for that sort of discussion
I edited the post. thanks for correcting me.
I also would have put this in the balance discussion forum, but they are not aktive by now. maybe i can move it later.
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Defiance
Posts: 39

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#9 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:09 am

If Guard gets nerfed (or "changed"), I'd reroll BW/SW same day. ****, reroll WL and eat everyone... not like Destro pugs Guard much anyway.

I don't recommend it.

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Boursk
Posts: 493

Re: [Suggestion] Making guard less OP

Post#10 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:15 am

Guard is fine as it is.

If there's enough **** hitting the guarded target, the tank guarding him will absolutely disintegrate.
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