RVR new system feedback

[Tesq]

since no one gona start the thread i'll step on it, not gona argument the system being good or bad but there somethig that should be reported:

Problem:
-ppl are heavily use siege weapons and this is not a good thing, every damnit warband is take behind them cannons which should be used to **** zerg at the keep, the point it's that there is no zerg against them, the zerg IS using them to get a easy victory.

-another problem is the KB effect, it **** every wb composition where 1 faction does not have cannons, ok i understand that some classes are underperforming in aoe stuff but this is just insane 1 wb vs 2 party is alredy hard enough if we also have to face cannons which make 1800 damages to every one that's just not gona work as anti zerg system.

-so the concept of cannons is right i agree that canons must be used as anti zerg tool but the currently implemenation is wrong, they need of course to have no target cap so that this pressure and punish every ppl if on the zerg side ok BUT the damages MUST scale with the aao and viceversa get debuff if you are outnumbering the enemy. It's not right that the zerg side that can even with the zerg still have access to the same sieges weapons a zerged sides should benefith from it.

-there is one more problem with sieges weapons, they are too hard: this not refering to general circustances but to wb vs wb fight, cannons are ranged weapons they should be easily destroyed in melee; ppl should protect them, instead what is happening is ppl just set them and keep shoot even if the enemy wb is in front of you make all the above problem even more serious.

-the zerg own all the resource: if flag get tap in sequence you can just pass flag to flag keep taking all supply which prevent the outnumbered faction to defend or even there is way too much zerg so that 1 side can think of take 1 flag.
Moreover a zerged side cannot wait the generation for the supply even 1 second.

-sieges weapons doing way too many damages on door: this is retarded ppl deliberately ignoring ram and use cannon to carry the zerg throught doors also prevent oil counter. To the other side rams are way to soft and get destroyed too easily.


suggestions:

1) remove the KB effect instead put interrupt(actually better a cancell rec is quite hard if you get interrup every damnit time)/snare this will prevent to **** every fight even the balanced just because someone is using cannons

2) the damages increase due the concentration need to be nerfed a lot: alredy hit all the zerg with multiple cannons is alredy rewarded enough these damages are insane 2 healer x party are healing that party not g-heal the whole wb. The anti zerg tool is not the damage increase but the no target limit , if a damages increase want to be put on sieges weapons need to keep track of aao, and dont get apply for 1 wb. We had cannons hitting us for 1800 damages and we where 2 partys today.

3) all hit done under 30/40 feets of a cannon need to do WAY MORE DAMAGES: so that we can make sally from the keep and nuke from behind sieges weapons which the other faction need to def, split actually the front line.

4) controlling flag of the same realm should all give supply togheter to actually split the zerg in the same moment, and when a side with the aao own all the flag it should take longer to generate with such system or eventually zerg run and cover the more space it can and you can't do nothing.

5) door immune to sieges weapons damages: you need a ram or alternative anything can hit the door but all does very low damages and i mean way a lot less damages. Also rams need to be 10x times harder to take down they really go down way too faster they need after bigger damages reduction a damages capso tht at least 1 ram last at least 2 min of swing.

[Karast]

I somewhat agree with some of your observations.

But I think that the issue with siege and cannons, might simply be the number available. There may simply need to be a harder cap on the maximum number of cannons / aoe cannons available at any single time.

When you think about it from both a power / and a lore perspective with the new damage on grouped enemies, it might make better sense to limit cannons / siege to 4 or less at / around a keep. Siege weapons are rare and expensive things in the warhammer world.

When you have 6 or more up it makes a keep un-defendable. You cannot even try. I know part of the new system is to give counter to funnels, but right now funnels are almost impossible, and it makes keep defenses much much more difficult. I do not mind the supply system and the fights at the BO's and around the lakes are great, but a final last ditch keep defense should still be an option. Despite their issues shieldwalls, and funnels are an iconic, and almost core part of RvR. Changes need to be made, and I am happy to see them.

Lowering cannon health might also help to make them strategic targets to rally out and spike, but right now for smaller groups they have too much HP to realistically spike quickly enough should an enemy zerg not guard them carefully enough.

It is my hope in the future we can see more ways to bypass walls, such as with ladders, deploy-able ramps, or skaven orge-esk orcapluts.

[Azarael]

This patch uncovered two additional issues with cannons:

1) The caps are too high. 12 artillery and 18 cannons at a rank 5 keep was a ballpark figure and a really bad one at that.
2) The regeneration code is horrible. It's outrageous. I've no idea what I was thinking when I wrote it, but every minute, a keep resupplies with 35% of the cap's worth of artillery and cannons. That's removing any element of being punished for losing siege and making an endless flood of cannons.

The following changes are in the next patch:

- Supply caps for artillery and siege have been slashed. A rank 5 keep supports 6 artillery pieces and 8 cannons.
- Fixed the regeneration code. A rank 5 keep will respawn a cannon and artillery piece every 2 minutes.
- Rams are available at keeps of rank 1 or higher. The respawn time for a ram is 20 minutes at rank 1, 15 minutes at rank 2 and 10 minutes for rank 3+.
- Heavily nerfed cannon against doors.
- Improved the resilience of rams by 400%.
- Artillery weapons consider targets within 15 feet of you instead of 20 feet of you for increasing damage dealt to you.

A reminder: an artillery piece will only knock you back if 3 additional allies are within 15 feet of you.

- The keep lord will regain abilities as the maximum population of the enemy realm increases, rather than with the rank of the keep.
- Siege weapons other than rams suffer significantly more damage from players, and will receive double damage when hit with two-handed melee weapons. They will continue to block physical ranged fire outright.
- Dynamic lock timers are now based on your own population rather than the average of both realms' populations.

[Tesq]

A reminder: an artillery piece will only knock you back if 3 additional allies are within 15 feet of you.

em? and how we suppose to play in groups then? i mean the base it's stay near each other to focus the aoe.

[Azarael]

Do you often have your entire group within 15ft of you when within range of an artillery piece? The damage base is 900 and it increases by 225 for every ally within 15ft.

[Karast]

A reminder: an artillery piece will only knock you back if 3 additional allies are within 15 feet of you.

Does this count pets / npcs?

I noticed being hit by the knockback while only my turret, and my partner engi / turret were in range of the blast.

If npc's count it could be worth increasing the cap from 4 to 6.

[Azarael]

Pets will now be ignored for the purpose of increasing damage.

[Tesq]

well yes, it depend from the situation :
-if we are kiting some body-block may happed
- fight on postern are exatly like that
-the sieges deploy is a joke for the pushing side, just move up and down the sieges is too easy and when you are outnumbered you get cornered quite easily so even moving out and regrouping or even fight in the front line vs enemy make you have at least 4 ppl in 6 man with you into 15-20 feet.

Sy but may not the radius be made a lot larger so that it may hit all 1 wb (and all the rest of the zerg under it) even a bit spread in a circle but if there are moe than 24 ppl then the sieges weapons do more damages according to any formula you want? Because you know 1 wb is not zerg and well the aoe is based on stay all stick togheter in -10 feets due the small aoe range of some skill.

[saupreusse]

I have to agree with Tesq in this point: The Knockback on Cannons shouldn't exist. Yes, funneling a keep into eternity is boring and we have to do something about it. But i think this change was simply too much. I always loved that its possible to actually build a sweet tankwall to defend an open gate. We even have collision detection to make this feature possible.
I suggest thinking about a different buff for this siege equipment, I'm sure we could find another solution.

[Akalukz]

what about a % chance to knock back.