Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

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Clintvb
Posts: 6

Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#1 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:42 pm

Being a dps dok from early in live I feel like nobody realizes why they became very much weaker and therefore much less popular. Many people are still unaware of how dps healing works and maybe this is why it has gone un noticed. Apart from gear sets and slotting the correct tactics, two things were changed that practically ruined the chances of a dps dok surviving any halfway decent ranged class or numerous mdps. They changed the way empowered transfer worked by first greatly slowing down the ability by adding a spin move to the motion. ( it still says instant cast but is no longer spammable and fast enough to provide sufficient healing to the dok or any surrounding team mates. And secondly they took the power of this ability and put it into a tactic. The lesser of the two problems. This now just meant you had to slot that tactic instead of curse of khaine (the heal debuff tactic)

I think people are still really excited about the possibility of dps healing but dont realize these changes took place .

Now i dont know if its possible to fix that type of thing but changing the speed and spammability of transfer essence would be the fix for this class. And if people thought they were once again too powerful you could easily change the amount healed by it SLIGHTLY with a successful outcome.

Thanks i hope some dps doks from long ago back me on this and we can make that class fun again

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blaqwar
Posts: 471

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#2 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:21 am

Image

I'm not a math genius but GCD in WAR is 1.4 sec, which means 7 TEs in 10 sec (I think I could have gotten one more off but I ran out of AP :P). 8x1.4=11.2 - would fit since the combat log is limited to sec so it could be a rounding error with the start+finish time.

I think your theory of the animation limiting the frequency with which you can use an ability is plain wrong. Most animations are sped up by the client if they follow an animation that didn't finish by the end of GCD. You can even observe that spamming an ability can spaz out an animation in rare cases. The client definitely does not limit abilities by animations, but rather by other restrictions.

I believe that what you are experiencing is lag.

Clintvb
Posts: 6

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#3 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:19 am

Very interesting ill have to check how this goes down on my screen. There definately seems to be a difference in survivability since the change long ago in live.

I used to take the dragonwake BO by myself just for fun and I remember trying right after the change, Slotting the new tactic, and not being able to. Xould this have been due to a change in the npcs?

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magter3001
Posts: 1294

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#4 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:28 am

blaqwar wrote:
I'm not a math genius but GCD in WAR is 1.4 sec, which means 7 TEs in 10 sec (I think I could have gotten one more off but I ran out of AP :P). 8x1.4=11.2 - would fit since the combat log is limited to sec so it could be a rounding error with the start+finish time.

I think your theory of the animation limiting the frequency with which you can use an ability is plain wrong. Most animations are sped up by the client if they follow an animation that didn't finish by the end of GCD. You can even observe that spamming an ability can spaz out an animation in rare cases. The client definitely does not limit abilities by animations, but rather by other restrictions.

I believe that what you are experiencing is lag.
You're right, you're not a math genius... the GCD was changed to 1.1 seconds back in t3.
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blaqwar
Posts: 471

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#5 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:05 pm

magter3001 wrote:
blaqwar wrote:
I'm not a math genius but GCD in WAR is 1.4 sec, which means 7 TEs in 10 sec (I think I could have gotten one more off but I ran out of AP :P). 8x1.4=11.2 - would fit since the combat log is limited to sec so it could be a rounding error with the start+finish time.

I think your theory of the animation limiting the frequency with which you can use an ability is plain wrong. Most animations are sped up by the client if they follow an animation that didn't finish by the end of GCD. You can even observe that spamming an ability can spaz out an animation in rare cases. The client definitely does not limit abilities by animations, but rather by other restrictions.

I believe that what you are experiencing is lag.
You're right, you're not a math genius... the GCD was changed to 1.1 seconds back in t3.
Please don't quote me without bothering to read what I wrote. I wrote WAR, not RoR. If it's a RoR specific thing then it's not documented anywhere and I missed it. It also doesn't have anything to do with math.

Thank you for not contributing.

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Azarael
Posts: 5342

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#6 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:08 pm

The GCD on both AoR and RoR is 1.15 seconds. We know this is the case because the client allows abilities to be used 1.15s into the displayed 1.5s GCD as long as you get your timing right. If you invoke the ability too early, it will be blocked until the 1.5s GCD is up.

We previously had the server enforce the 1.5s GCD hard, and it resulted in client casts being cancelled.

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blaqwar
Posts: 471

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#7 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:27 pm

The general consensus on live from release up until LotD (at least) was GCD was 1.4 (from Gamespot forums):
(4) Global Cooldown Timers -This seems to be a hot topic for players to talk about. However, things aren't always as they seem.
- Reality and perception are two different things, Warhammer has a GCD of 1.4s, WoW has 1.5s
- "Ability not ready" messaging needs to be improve, a sound effect if Global Cooldown in effect, maybe more cowbell?
- Need to improve on the feeling of sluggishness of the GCD and UI. Bug with display where our timer shows 2s when it is really 1.4. We need to improve on anything that makes the UI feel more sluggish than it is.
- The next best thing to a queue is? We will add in better "slop timer" to allow players 0.3s extra to pre-queue a second ability followup.
I even wrote about it myself. Not saying that you two are wrong, I'm just explaining where I got my number from. Perhaps it was changed down the line and I missed it (or wasn't playing). Or maybe Mythic themselves were confused.

Clintvb
Posts: 6

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#8 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:00 am

Were there changes made to how these attacks, (rend soul, and transfer essence)? I was head to head with a sword master spamming TE and maybe got one heal from it. Then shortly after dieing. I don't know all the patch notes by heart yet but this never happened in live. Might not have gotten the kill before but never would have died.

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Azarael
Posts: 5342

Re: Fixing dps heal classes once and for all.

Post#9 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:04 am

These attacks work as they did on live with no Prayer/Covenant on, or with Absolution/Tenacity and Celerity/Righteousness on. With Devotion/Vitality on they will heal for even more.

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