Options for alternative leveling curves without x3 exp

[Gerv]

Mob grinding is the fastest way to level and for those who want to get out of t2-3 as soon as possible this is what they tend to gravitate to, however this is extremely boring and as per first hand evidence from forum users is driving players away. This is an attempt to provide alternative leveling options for when population is low and scenario pops and RvR is quiet.

*this is an issue predominantly for US time zones during the week where populations can drop to 30 players total between the two tiers.
*I am no coder and some of these ideas may not be possible or may take too much work.

Party Quests
Provide gear drops from bags, provides gear from chapter influence. Many have or are being fixed, let´s use this content. Since t2 is from lvl 16+ to level 29, the end of t3. I am only including pqs from there on. Using Razielhell´s Guide there are enough pqs to use across the racial pairings. This would only be for the fully functional pqs.

For Order: MoM and t2 Elf zones and Badlands and t3 Empire zones.
For Destro: t2 Elyrion except no hard pq for lvl 18-19. Beyond the bracket of 22-23 there are only a few scattered pqs in Empire for desto.

The idea
Increase the experience gained from completing stages, based on the respective chapter and level bracket.
For example, exp required on average for level 16 & 17 is a total of 120k exp (wiki exp chart). I propose that hard pqs give 25% of a level, normal pqs give 20% and easy pqs give 15% across all levels up until lvl 30 at which most players head to Ruin pq farming. Assuming three stages; (obviously % are not set in stone and can be adjusted)
Easy pq; Stage 1 = 4k, Stage 2 = 6k and Stage 3 = 10k for a total of 18k.


Possible Issues
This does remove to an extent the exponential leveling curve and replaces it with a linear leveling curve which is not the same as RvR and could lead to complaints. To counter this if possible, you could base the amount of exp received based on population like in RvR. For example, when number of participants exceeds the advised (easy 3, normal 6 & hard 12) it gives reduced exp by 5% per person over the limit. A timer for checking for population active in area is the same system for pq contribution as implemented now.

The Why
This provides a leveling alternative for when the times in the game are quieter. It requires small numbers and utilizes sparsely used content that is being fixed as we go. In my opinion does not impact on the RvR or scenario experience because the influence items, renown, medallions and emblems are still of vital importance to players leveling up.

Quests utilizing the Tome of Knowledge
I have outlined below a number of options to create quests or edit existing tome ok knowledge achievements which could be used to grant volumes of experience as an alternative way to level and a cool player experience.

1) Create a Bounty Hunter/Antique Collector Quest utilizing the Tome of Knowledge unlocks for killing certain named monsters or for collecting items. There are a few scattered across the t2 and t3 zones. Similar to what has been done for the stalker quests. Using the tome unlocks require players to kill a mob and collect an item as proof of the kill. The tome unlock instructions from this guide, https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=1837 could be used to develop quest instructions.

The respawn timers for such mobs can be adjusted to enable the quest not to be farmed to huge amounts of experience over short periods of time if it is not currently possible to put in a timer on repeatable quest. The volume of experience should vary on tiers if there are enough tome unlocks to do so. It needs to be enough to make a dent in leveling, lvl 16-21 for 50k exp and lvl 22+ for 100k exp. This is because below lvl 22 it is less than 200k (144k-214k) exp to level and plus that is 200k+(214k-483k at lvl30) Numbers can be tweaked for per tome completion or for overall quest.

The way to promote the quests could be by taking a speech bubble from note worthy character in Altdorf and IC in market place and apex, edit it to describe the possible large reward for killing said monsters or obtaining valuable items similar to the way a traveling merchant in times gone by might promote himself, using one of the stales already existing in the zones.

2) Increase the reward for exploration based tome unlocks. Like above this could be created into a quest for “Worldly Travlers!” or just left as increased rewards for unlocks. There could be one per zone. I am not sure on the coding possibilities but if a quest, picking 3 areas per zone.

I prefer the increased rewards because this encourages people to go out and seek the locations throughout the world, something not often done. It is not something that can be farmed for rapid exp. I would advocate to again do percentage leveling if the unlocks can be isolated and rewards edited. Rewards depending on which chapter and zone, I think 25% of a level is not too much of an increase.

[blaqwar]

Whenever I think of the amount of work that went into PQs only for them to rarely have been visited and ignored by the large part of the population on live and RoR I get sad. Even here on RoR the amount of coding, bugfixing and testing that goes into PQs is considerable, yet apart from the two T1 PQs and the Ruin PQs they are rarely utilised, which is a shame.

Making use of the PvE PQ system that will (eventually) be restored to it's original state is a great idea. That way the work done on that front will have other uses than simply existing as a forgotten feature of the game. The amount of quality PvE content that's actually explored and used by the players would go up immensely.

My only concern with turning PQs into a viable way to level would be them competing with T2/T3 ORvR, which isn't in a healthy spot to begin with. I disagree with your assesment that players will still PvP for the influence, renown and medallions. Two of those (inf and medallions) are pretty much meaningless once you get to T4 and the renown can be caught up on rather easily once in T4, meaning that people will continue trying to skip T2/T3 and power level straight to Ruin PQs (which btw is a nice transition and would somewhat mitigate the "shitty PvE" stigma WAR has, once most of the PQs in the game work of course).

So while making PQs into a viable way to level would solve the issue of the game being grindy during low-pop times, I think it should never be made more profitable than leveling through PvP. That is, the experience awarded in PvP should be higher than that of PvE, turning leveling through PQs into a viable alternative for leveling but not a superior alternative, in order to give RvR a chance.

The suggested PQs xp buff could be accompanied by a change that would push more people into RvR lakes. Reintroducing rats for example, on a slower respawn timer in order to make sure that they can't be the singular XP source of the entire server's T2/T3 population. If they were on a slower respawn the risk/reward ratio along with avilability would still push people into leveling through PQs. Although rats do bring back the "he's kill stealing my rats/griefing me while leveling" complaints that I imagine make many a GM's head hurt.

Or something like Jaycub's idea of buffing xp/renown gain for smaller numbers of RvR participants. Although I'm not sure it would be a big enough incentiviser to spark more RvR. In any case, something to make being in the RvR lake more rewarding than doing PQs, but also riskier and require more knowledge of the game (or being "good").

As for the other two suggestions:

1). There are kill collectors already in the game, although not working (I believe client control is needed to fix them?). Those could be utilised as NPC hubs for such ToK quests. Although the whole idea of leveling through ToK unlocks could be simplified by massively buffing the tome unlock XP for T2/T3 characters. Thus making ToK leveling a thing. It would require a mostly working ToK though, which RoR doesn't have yet (although it's being worked on).
2.) Travelling is a decent way of making gold in the early tiers by utilising travel quests (those that send you from quest hub to quest hub). Back when triple quest xp was a thing (is it still implemented for quests in T2/T3?) it was also a very good way of leveling. I remember those along with epic quests got me out of T3 on one of my characters.

There already are systems in place that could be tweaked/buffed in order to provide alternative leveling options. Instead of implementing and coding new stuff those could be used. Great ideas though.

[Gerv]

Spoiler:

Whenever I think of the amount of work that went into PQs only for them to rarely have been visited and ignored by the large part of the population on live and RoR I get sad. Even here on RoR the amount of coding, bugfixing and testing that goes into PQs is considerable, yet apart from the two T1 PQs and the Ruin PQs they are rarely utilised, which is a shame.

Making use of the PvE PQ system that will (eventually) be restored to it's original state is a great idea. That way the work done on that front will have other uses than simply existing as a forgotten feature of the game. The amount of quality PvE content that's actually explored and used by the players would go up immensely.

My only concern with turning PQs into a viable way to level would be them competing with T2/T3 ORvR, which isn't in a healthy spot to begin with. I disagree with your assesment that players will still PvP for the influence, renown and medallions. Two of those (inf and medallions) are pretty much meaningless once you get to T4 and the renown can be caught up on rather easily once in T4, meaning that people will continue trying to skip T2/T3 and power level straight to Ruin PQs (which btw is a nice transition and would somewhat mitigate the "shitty PvE" stigma WAR has, once most of the PQs in the game work of course).

So while making PQs into a viable way to level would solve the issue of the game being grindy during low-pop times, I think it should never be made more profitable than leveling through PvP. That is, the experience awarded in PvP should be higher than that of PvE, turning leveling through PQs into a viable alternative for leveling but not a superior alternative, in order to give RvR a chance.

The suggested PQs xp buff could be accompanied by a change that would push more people into RvR lakes. Reintroducing rats for example, on a slower respawn timer in order to make sure that they can't be the singular XP source of the entire server's T2/T3 population. If they were on a slower respawn the risk/reward ratio along with avilability would still push people into leveling through PQs. Although rats do bring back the "he's kill stealing my rats/griefing me while leveling" complaints that I imagine make many a GM's head hurt.

Or something like Jaycub's idea of buffing xp/renown gain for smaller numbers of RvR participants. Although I'm not sure it would be a big enough incentiviser to spark more RvR. In any case, something to make being in the RvR lake more rewarding than doing PQs, but also riskier and require more knowledge of the game (or being "good").

I completely agree with your comment about not creating a suprior leveling system, I thought that was common understanding, I should have explicitly stated that in my original post. I have not been in t2-3 for a long time and are unfamilar with the exp currently given via RvR, the numbers can obviously tweaked depending on the two systems.

I don't think re-introducing the rat spawns are a good idea, because, while it did enable options for fights, the griefing was intense and the fights were short lived, mostly ending up in players retreating into the respective warcamps. I would suggest, using the existing system of supply transportation and increase the exp given for successful delivery. What do you think?
This in itself has a risk-reward concept. I acknowledge that it may already reward considerable exp, as I have not been in t2-3 for a long time.

The idea from Jaycub is a positive one, because I believe there is a minium number of players required to spawn a ram and being assulting a keep. The X value in his idea could be when the number is below that required to spawn the ram. I will check scour the threads and see if I can find the numbers. Other ideas have been posted before by people like Bloodi and Dureal too.

Spoiler:

I think ultimatley sparking RvR comes down to population and players who are do'ers. I believe the lack of US mid tier RvR among other things is a combination of 1) Needing players who actively broadcast the active tier 2/3 RvR zone and form a grp to begin taking BO's.
and
2) Overcoming the issue that players don't like to start taking BO's and running supplies, they want to load in to an active fight (this is where our discussion upon incentives like the idea Jaycub posted, possible discussion around BO and Supply rewards come in).

Clearly, in EU time this is not a problem because they enjoy higher population numbers and more chance of having these minded players and observable mid tier RvR. In US time, the basis of the original post, we have lower numbers, thus less possibility of active minded players and addtionally the stigma of "t2-3 is a deserted ghost town in US time mentality."

Spoiler:

As for the other two suggestions:

1). There are kill collectors already in the game, although not working (I believe client control is needed to fix them?). Those could be utilised as NPC hubs for such ToK quests. Although the whole idea of leveling through ToK unlocks could be simplified by massively buffing the tome unlock XP for T2/T3 characters. Thus making ToK leveling a thing. It would require a mostly working ToK though, which RoR doesn't have yet (although it's being worked on).
2.) Travelling is a decent way of making gold in the early tiers by utilising travel quests (those that send you from quest hub to quest hub). Back when triple quest xp was a thing (is it still implemented for quests in T2/T3?) it was also a very good way of leveling. I remember those along with epic quests got me out of T3 on one of my characters.

There already are systems in place that could be tweaked/buffed in order to provide alternative leveling options. Instead of implementing and coding new stuff those could be used. Great ideas though.

@ 1) I looked up the kill colelctors on the ToK and yes, they are not implimented yet, the bug tracker reads "server issue". Additionally, while researching ToK unlocks for named monsters that could be used, I noticed that a few of the Tome unlock monsters that were already used for the Stalker quests for t3 armor. Thus, since some parts of the ToK are not implimented a tempory fix could be to, unfortunatley, as it is more coding work, create new content. I agree, the best possible solution would be to boost the ToK exp granted. I don't know if it would be easier to code for increased exp for ToK as a whole or selecting individual unlocks, as I prefaced the initial post.

@ 2) Yep, I have done exacty the same as you. I believe the bonus exp still is. I posted this because in another thread, Wargrim commented asking for creative and new ideas to facilitate leveling. This is something different I came up with.

[blaqwar]

You are right, reintroducing rats would be a bad idea. And I whole-heartedly agree with you that while it's true that the US population is small it feels like it's big enough to facilitate fighting in T2/T3 at focal times. The issue is that nobody wants to put the effort in to start a WB, start broadcasting and actually spark some action. It feels like most players are content with perpetuating the "T2/T3 is a desert" and whining about how boring grinding is and how slow scenarios are, instead of actually doing something. Action begets more action as is the case in RvR, unless one side is steamrolling the other but that's a different issue altogether. It really is a question of whether we're delusional and the population really is too small to even start RvR action but from my experience the population tracker on the website tells a different story.

Using the supply system is an interesting idea, if the supply deliveries would reward a decent amount of experience (10k for the farthest away BOs wouldn't be unreasonable, a solo kill of a similar level with rested gives around 5k XP) people would run supplies instead of farming mobs in PvE, path of least resistance. If you reward double the XP for stolen supplies, suddenly you have the opposing side trying to intercept the supply carriers for massive XP.

The issue is that this idea seems to promote RvR but it doesn't. Running BO supplies as a group would still be easier than attacking a keep and locking a zone (those take a lot more time, players and effort compared to running supplies), especially if you outnumber the opposition. With how difficult it is to control BOs these days I could see both sides being content with splitting BOs, ignoring each other and just running supplies. This scenario wouldn't result in more RvR action. Of course I might be wrong, I'd love for this to get implemented so players can prove me wrong and engage in massive fights over BOs and supplies.

The other issue I see is if you are dominated in ORvR but the opposing side refuses to attack the keep and instead keeps running the supplies you are **** out of luck and have to go level in PvE anyway. While trying to defend a keep gives you a staging ground to at least make an effort in defending, picking people off or at least using the siege to get some contribution for a defense tick. Wouldn't happen if all the other side is doing is running BOs as those are very difficult to contest if you are outnumbered 2:1 (happens quite often in lower tiers).

Note that the above situations are considered from a US pop standpoint, thus I would estimate 10-15 people per side max in the zone. Quite low numbers for taking even a lightly defended keep (NPCs in keeps hit lowbies really hard as they ignore bolster).

As for the ToK leveling proposal, I believe the question is if it would be easier to simply wait for client control to able to fix the ToK and implement increased XP, instead of creating new content. I think that's a question only devs can answer.

[Gerv]

It really is a question of whether we're delusional and the population really is too small to even start RvR action but from my experience the population tracker on the website tells a different story.

Yes, agreed, once I get back into the US time zone I will spend a week down there and see what the go is.

Using the supply system is an interesting idea, if the supply deliveries would reward a decent amount of experience (10k for the farthest away BOs wouldn't be unreasonable, a solo kill of a similar level with rested gives around 5k XP) people would run supplies instead of farming mobs in PvE, path of least resistance. If you reward double the XP for stolen supplies, suddenly you have the opposing side trying to intercept the supply carriers for massive XP.

The issue is that this idea seems to promote RvR but it doesn't. Running BO supplies as a group would still be easier than attacking a keep and locking a zone (those take a lot more time, players and effort compared to running supplies), especially if you outnumber the opposition. With how difficult it is to control BOs these days I could see both sides being content with splitting BOs, ignoring each other and just running supplies. This scenario wouldn't result in more RvR action. Of course I might be wrong, I'd love for this to get implemented so players can prove me wrong and engage in massive fights over BOs and supplies.

The other issue I see is if you are dominated in ORvR but the opposing side refuses to attack the keep and instead keeps running the supplies you are **** out of luck and have to go level in PvE anyway. While trying to defend a keep gives you a staging ground to at least make an effort in defending, picking people off or at least using the siege to get some contribution for a defense tick. Wouldn't happen if all the other side is doing is running BOs as those are very difficult to contest if you are outnumbered 2:1 (happens quite often in lower tiers).

I agree here too. I think a positive factor is that the rewards for taking a keep can be adjusted to far out weight the rewards for supplies or a BO. BO flipping has been paramount before, but the system with just one zone helps to aleviate this issue. I, like you, want to think that the possible rewards from more capturing more BOs and the ability to deliver more supplies would drive fights, You are right about zone domination and this is where the rewards need to be tweaked over time, admitedly this could be exausting.

As for the ToK leveling proposal, I believe the question is if it would be easier to simply wait for client control to able to fix the ToK and implement increased XP, instead of creating new content. I think that's a question only devs can answer.

Amen to this.