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PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

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Tankbeardz
Posts: 569

Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#71 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:24 pm

TenTonHammer wrote:*Thinks back to live and what happened to people who didnt have max trivial blows*

Yall aint seen nothin yet if you think this is "bursty"
I never ever specc'ed TB and I didn't have many issues on live.

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knick
Posts: 12

Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#72 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:01 pm

we have to keep in mind that some classes build on for burst dmg
i mean a tank have a lots of defend tacticts even with 2hand weapon or a healer can easly survive a attack by one dmg dealer Especially DOK or WP with dmg reduction and so on. So if you reduce dmg by 15% it mean a 100% nerve of classes like WH WE or WL while the other classes only need a bit longer but can youse there mechanics. dosen´t sound fair to me

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Telen
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Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#73 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:29 pm

knick wrote:we have to keep in mind that some classes build on for burst dmg
i mean a tank have a lots of defend tacticts even with 2hand weapon or a healer can easly survive a attack by one dmg dealer Especially DOK or WP with dmg reduction and so on. So if you reduce dmg by 15% it mean a 100% nerve of classes like WH WE or WL while the other classes only need a bit longer but can youse there mechanics. dosen´t sound fair to me
But with the reduced gcd they would be putting out the same burst as live.
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knick
Posts: 12

Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#74 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:36 pm

but all classes have reduced gcd so also heals and so on ...

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Telen
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Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#75 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:47 pm

knick wrote:but all classes have reduced gcd so also heals and so on ...
Large burst countering heals longer than the gcd dont benefit. Also heals alone dont counter burst. Reaction to loss of wounds depend on wound amount. Faster burst with the same level wounds gives less reaction time anyway.
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Azarael
Posts: 5343

Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#76 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:47 am

Sulorie wrote:The gcd was exactly 1,4 seconds on live. The fact that abilities unlock earlier has the reason that you can queue abilities and cast them the moment the gcd goes off.
Everyone who played on live knows how the gcd was. This is causing the confusion when we are told that it is 1,14. :)
This is being repeated based on what people think they remember from live, which precedent should indicate means nothing to me, as people misremember all sorts of things.

When you cast an ability that the client thinks is valid, the client acts without consulting the server. When you cast at 1.15s, the client invokes the animation, cast bar (if any) and the GCD animation on your hotbars. If this were a spell queue it would result in the following issues:

1) Client animation/effect desynchronisation by a worst case of 350ms
2) Queue overloading, because the client is resetting the GCD whenever you are "queuing" a spell. This would progresively increase the above desynchronization interval and eventually result in more than one spell being in the queue at once, because the client's queue interval would be shorter than the server's cast interval. Both of these would present obvious visual issues.

I initially resisted the implementation of 1.15s GCD, but the compelling point that was given, aside from a certain team member's recollections on how fast he could spread his DoTs, was that WAR would never issue a cancellation packet (causing castbar disappearance) on any ability that the client allowed to cast and began to animate. Accordingly I'm going to need evidence before anyone repeats something like "It was 1.4s :)", proving either of the following:

1) The WAR client itself was originally sent some kind of data on the GCD that we are missing, and so on live it was impossible to invoke any ability before the GCD was up. I find this highly unlikely, by the way, because it makes no sense from a programming and design standpoint to require the server to send that kind of information to the client, as the GCD Is fundamental - to the extent that the client itself retains data on which abilities should ignore the GCD.

2) A spell queue existed. Patch notes referring to a "forgiveness queue" are not considered valid, because patchnotes can lie. I want to see evidence of delayed invocation or cast time extension in action.

https://youtu.be/snfHrT4-oL4?t=62

shows Whirling Pin cutting in at 1.15s after a Broadhead Arrow. You can see it goes off instantly because of the combat text showing WP was blocked.

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NoRKaLKiLLa
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Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#77 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:54 am

Sometimes I can cast two abilities at once. I haven't gotten it down to any every time occurrence but if I switch mutations and then immediately hit two debuffs- wham. Two abilities are given cooldowns on my hotbar and show up on my targets buffhead.
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Kobra
Posts: 70

Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#78 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:49 pm

Luth wrote:About 2.5k crits "on live": https://youtu.be/yOoIo1hnYi4?t=277
Good lord, I remember that horror story.. I will have nightmares for days of how unbalanced this was. That video illustrates what a pile of trash this game became towards the end and in my opinion why most of us walked away.

But yeah.. Proof? Screenshot? Next time I get punked for 2000-2500 I will screenshot it. It's not uncommon so I am unsure why you need proof? Almost anyone will agree this range is possible with a crit from a WH. That should be all of the proof you need. The last time I played (last week) the most I was hit for was around 1940 range.. Still way too high IMO.

I've been stacking toughness, DSU, and reworking my renown points AND using POTS to try and offset. But if dmg gets much higher the game will start to feel broken IMO.

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Telen
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Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#79 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Azarael wrote: https://youtu.be/snfHrT4-oL4?t=62

shows Whirling Pin cutting in at 1.15s after a Broadhead Arrow. You can see it goes off instantly because of the combat text showing WP was blocked.
From the same video 1s spiral fletched arrow cast are limited to the gcd hotbar animation of 1.4s. The 1.15s is the ability queue. From live you could queue abilities just before the cd hotbar animation finished. Here you can trigger abilities during that cd animation. You could not on live. If gcd was 1.15s the client would not have a hotbar gcd animation of 1.4s. Thats pretty obvious.

This is a better video as its an archmage that doesnt have cd on dots and is ability clicking so you can see when hes trying to trigger abilities. He is clicking but unable to trigger them before the hotbars 1.4s gcd animation is finished. Its also alot more modern 1.4.0.
https://youtu.be/69pvebEbW8Q

At around 1.47 on that video he triggers a lotd pocket before the gcd is up at about the 1.15s mark. So the shortened gcd could have been only for specific item use not for main abilities.
Last edited by Telen on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Telen
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Re: PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

Post#80 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:02 pm

NoRKaLKiLLa wrote:Sometimes I can cast two abilities at once. I haven't gotten it down to any every time occurrence but if I switch mutations and then immediately hit two debuffs- wham. Two abilities are given cooldowns on my hotbar and show up on my targets buffhead.
This happened on live too. You would sometimes get two abilities on cd from nerfedbuttons. Only one would trigger though as the server had a check.
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