What would it take: Queue for 6v6

[peterthepan3]

Hi Peter:

Based on your response it seems that the balance moderator's official standpoint on why there is limited 6v6 in this game is because people are playing the game/classes the way they want to?

It's a contributory factor, i.e. people don't like feeling 'forced' to change their spec (or class) to better complement a group/maximise chances of winning. It is nowhere near the sole reason for limited 6v6 (these reasons having already been discussed in this thread); it contributes along with the other reasons.

A competent 2h IB/WP duo killing badly organised pugs is a world of difference from 6v6, and so I don't understand the comparison. You can make any class viable in pug/solo environments, but the same is not true in 24v24, 12v12 or 6v6 imo (hence my original point).

[Martok]

The 6v6 community needs to get out of the farm mentality. If you win the team fight, do the objective and finish the scenario.

I have been repeatedly making this point during production of my video scenario guides, that spawn point farming is not only boring but counterproductive to scenario play. The most obvious reaction of a measurable percentage of players who have spent their time in an SC stuck in their spawn war-camp is refusal to que for a follow-on SC, but the E-Peen crowd seems oblivious to this reality. In addition my opinion is if you want to further damage scenario balance and willingness to participate then institute a leader-board. The only people that will please is the same people already slaves to the farm mentality.

[Martok]

2a. SCs having no bearing on any RvR makes them pointless in the grand scheme. It's been chosen to treat them as a "mini-game" so they have been devalued to the point of worthlessness. Make them vital to the RvR effort and you'll see an immediate change.

Agreed. At one time here SC's were tied to the grand RvR effort. I don't understand why it was changed.

[ravenlocke]

Hi Peter:

Based on your response it seems that the balance moderator's official standpoint on why there is limited 6v6 in this game is because people are playing the game/classes the way they want to?

It's a contributory factor, i.e. people don't like feeling 'forced' to change their spec (or class) to better complement a group/maximise chances of winning. It is nowhere near the sole reason for limited 6v6 (these reasons having already been discussed in this thread); it contributes along with the other reasons.

A competent 2h IB/WP duo killing badly organised pugs is a world of difference from 6v6, and so I don't understand the comparison. You can make any class viable in pug/solo environments, but the same is not true in 24v24, 12v12 or 6v6 imo (hence my original point).

Peter:

As someone who has enjoys this game greatly and has spent a large amount of time playing it is very discouraging to hear that the balance moderator's official standpoint is that small scale pvp in this game is not happening because players are not playing classes in a specific way.

It is also disappointing to hear that the official standpoint is that some classes or specs are not viable in 24v24, 12v12, or 6v6. That is very discouraging for new or returning players to read if they are thinking of joining or returning and are reading the forums.

Looking at other successful player vs player games (or game modes depending on the mmo), a large part of those communities join in organized pvp venues with whatever spec/class they enjoy the most even if it is not optimal.

I think it is non-constructive to the original purpose of the thread and damaging to the community that the official position is that small scale rvr is not happening because people are playing the way they want to and that some classes are not viable for that game mode.

Based on a majority of the feedback it seems that players feel the situation would be improved with increased population numbers. Running exp or rr events to get people into t4 or other unique item appearance / fun pocket items would do wonders I think. I look forward to hearing and discussing these suggestions and others.

-Kright 66 DOK

[peterthepan3]

Did you even read what I said, or are you deliberately trolling and missing my point?

Incase you missed it, I'll reiterate: some people are put off joining groups in general (let alone 6v6) because they feel (rightly or wrongly, because whether we like it or not there does exist a meta) they are unwanted/unneeded with their chosen spec. Some specs work for 6v6, while others don't: Grenade Engineer, DPS RP, AoE Marauder, SNB SM - all examples of specs that don't work. They might cut it against opponents who you vastly outskill, but on an even playing field, they don't.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see every spec have a place in 6v6 - but that's a long way ahead. As it stands, however, RoR has made more classes viable in 6v6 than WAR ever did: you can bring a wide range of classes into the mix - even if some outperform others. We've even had moderate success with DPS WP.

Hence why I brought it up in this thread, i.e. that people may not want to join 6v6 because their spec isn't very suited to it (all easily amendable by a simple respec 9 times out of 10, but hey-ho).

[ravenlocke]

Did you even read what I said, or are you deliberately trolling and missing my point?

Incase you missed it, I'll reiterate: some people are put off joining groups in general (let alone 6v6) because they feel (rightly or wrongly, because whether we like it or not there does exist a meta) they are unwanted/unneeded with their chosen spec. Some specs work for 6v6, while others don't: Grenade Engineer, DPS RP, AoE Marauder, SNB SM - all examples of specs that don't work. They might cut it against opponents who you vastly outskill, but on an even playing field, they don't.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see every spec have a place in 6v6 - but that's a long way ahead. As it stands, however, RoR has made more classes viable in 6v6 than WAR ever did: you can bring a wide range of classes into the mix - even if some outperform others. We've even had moderate success with DPS WP.

Hence why I brought it up in this thread, i.e. that people may not want to join 6v6 because their spec isn't very suited to it (all easily amendable by a simple respec 9 times out of 10, but hey-ho).

Peter:

It is disappointing that you responded to my concerns with personal attacks / accusatory remarks.

I don't think it is constructive to blame the decline in 6v6 play on people playing the spec / class they want as it is not a reasonably actionable item. I also think it is damaging for the community that the official response is that not all classes/specs are viable for 24v24, 12v12, and 6v6 gameplay and I hope that new / returning players don't get discouraged by reading those comments in this thread.

I would enjoy hearing and discussing any proposals you have for how to improve the 6v6 scene as it is something I greatly enjoy playing.

My current proposals are the implementation of exp/rvr increase events or events rewarding unique appearance items (alternate appearance or fun pocket items). Those along with some targeted online advertising might bring in or back a good chunk of players.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

-Kright 66 DOK

[Smellybelly]

Did you even read what I said, or are you deliberately trolling and missing my point?

Incase you missed it, I'll reiterate: some people are put off joining groups in general (let alone 6v6) because they feel (rightly or wrongly, because whether we like it or not there does exist a meta) they are unwanted/unneeded with their chosen spec. Some specs work for 6v6, while others don't: Grenade Engineer, DPS RP, AoE Marauder, SNB SM - all examples of specs that don't work. They might cut it against opponents who you vastly outskill, but on an even playing field, they don't.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see every spec have a place in 6v6 - but that's a long way ahead. As it stands, however, RoR has made more classes viable in 6v6 than WAR ever did: you can bring a wide range of classes into the mix - even if some outperform others. We've even had moderate success with DPS WP.

Hence why I brought it up in this thread, i.e. that people may not want to join 6v6 because their spec isn't very suited to it (all easily amendable by a simple respec 9 times out of 10, but hey-ho).

Peter:

It is disappointing that you responded to my concerns with personal attacks / accusatory remarks.

I don't think it is constructive to blame the decline in 6v6 play on people playing the spec / class they want as it is not a reasonably actionable item. I also think it is damaging for the community that the official response is that not all classes/specs are viable for 24v24, 12v12, and 6v6 gameplay and I hope that new / returning players don't get discouraged by reading those comments in this thread.

I would enjoy hearing and discussing any proposals you have for how to improve the 6v6 scene as it is something I greatly enjoy playing.

My current proposals are the implementation of exp/rvr increase events or events rewarding unique appearance items (alternate appearance or fun pocket items). Those along with some targeted online advertising might bring in or back a good chunk of players.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

-Kright 66 DOK

I dont quite understand how you can feel personaly attacked by peters reply but on to things that actually contribute to the discussion here....

1: Cosmetics that marks you out as a somewhat special fella, you dont dont wanna mess with this beastly looking dude/dudette because he/she looks just fab as F. Kinda like that, we all try to have cool apperances but with unique ones it will be even better. I mean armor and weapons ~
2: Pocket items a.k.a more cosmetics! Something to mark you out as a specially strong player and wich at the same time does NOT give you any added points or stats.
3: Titles are meh, but still ok.
4: Dyes! To make you look even more fab.

[Zegota]

Few opinions.

Incentivize guilds: tie 60% mount to a certain guild lvl, add +%renown gain, +%exp gain, +%currency gain to higher guild lvls and remove it from banners and other sources. Even few percent would make a huge difference. More people in guild chat, easier to organize, easier to socialize. Guild names might begin to mean something.

Rework scenarios: change the current team's approach to them as "minigames". More people qing as group > more smaller groups in RvR, if they are motivated enough to play both scs and rvr. Reduce rewards for PUG sc. You can still have casual fun if you want. Want more rewards? Join big guild and q as group.18vs18 is a no. Keep BFP and GC 12vs12. Highpass Cemetary made into 6v6, remove dmg buff mechanic. Logrin's Forge: remove dmg buff mechanic, add another flag in mid. Doomfist needs complete rework, big unused map. Keep Gates of Ekrund as pug. Khaine's Embrace needs another flag mid. Serpent's and Talabec Dam can be annoying with part running, TD especially. Rework points for kill/delivery. 6vs6 scs give highest rewards.

When was the 6vs6 scene the biggest? T3. It was easy to get max lvl/rr, and grind gear. Easier for groups to reroll certain class and change approach/try something new. Field was more lvl'd. We need a better pve alternative to conq gear, I feel that redeye or onslaught need a rework to reach that. Madcap weapons are on point. Great alternative, while keeping it only slightly inferior to Subjugator. Not having 2x,3x genesis is honestly not that much of a deal. You can make comparable setup with other available jewlery.

As far as balance goes, with more groups out there competing issues will become more than obvious and easier to acknowledge.

[peterthepan3]

Did you even read what I said, or are you deliberately trolling and missing my point?

Incase you missed it, I'll reiterate: some people are put off joining groups in general (let alone 6v6) because they feel (rightly or wrongly, because whether we like it or not there does exist a meta) they are unwanted/unneeded with their chosen spec. Some specs work for 6v6, while others don't: Grenade Engineer, DPS RP, AoE Marauder, SNB SM - all examples of specs that don't work. They might cut it against opponents who you vastly outskill, but on an even playing field, they don't.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see every spec have a place in 6v6 - but that's a long way ahead. As it stands, however, RoR has made more classes viable in 6v6 than WAR ever did: you can bring a wide range of classes into the mix - even if some outperform others. We've even had moderate success with DPS WP.

Hence why I brought it up in this thread, i.e. that people may not want to join 6v6 because their spec isn't very suited to it (all easily amendable by a simple respec 9 times out of 10, but hey-ho).

Peter:

It is disappointing that you responded to my concerns with personal attacks / accusatory remarks.

I don't think it is constructive to blame the decline in 6v6 play on people playing the spec / class they want as it is not a reasonably actionable item. I also think it is damaging for the community that the official response is that not all classes/specs are viable for 24v24, 12v12, and 6v6 gameplay and I hope that new / returning players don't get discouraged by reading those comments in this thread.

I would enjoy hearing and discussing any proposals you have for how to improve the 6v6 scene as it is something I greatly enjoy playing.

My current proposals are the implementation of exp/rvr increase events or events rewarding unique appearance items (alternate appearance or fun pocket items). Those along with some targeted online advertising might bring in or back a good chunk of players.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

-Kright 66 DOK

Didn't personally attack you whatsoever, so please - bore off with that. And yes - certain classes being better than others in min-max topend 6v6 has definitely dissuaded some players from even bothering. That's indisputable. I know players who won't even bother to form a group because 'why bother trying to beat comp X, Y and Z when we can only bring A, B and C to the table?'. Rightly or wrongly - it has had an effect. I am not in the business of lying to people.

There's a difference between being viable vs mediocrity and being viable at the top-end.

[Tesq]

i dont hink peter had against ya in this case, he just made a point regarding the game sich, he not pro/contro for that , at least for what i red/understood.

anyway is undoubtly true that some classes/set up have advantages , that should be work for balance department which it has always been number 1 problem of the game.