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Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 pm
by peterthepan3
OldPlayer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:13 pm
Sidenote: we had similar thread some months ago. WAR's focus was never 6 on 6, why focus on it now?
The
scenario's focuses are 6v6 (i.e. Isha/EC). Just as other scenario's focuses are 12v12, and others 18v18. The intent of the OP is to ascertain what would encourage people to try it out a bit more.
This doesn't equate to mandating a paradigm shift of WAR's main focus.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:03 pm
by Luuca
I guess it all comes down to everyone hating that feeling of helplessness. You know what I'm talking about; that SC team that kills entire teams in less than 10 GCDs (it seems).
When that happens, due to coordination, skill, renown ranks, gear, group comp, etc. your hands are tied and you have 13 minutes to kill for your 1 token and freedom from the SC.
Een forming a team to be competitive can be an issue because overcoming the RR and Gear issues early on will still leave you in a severely handicapped position.
In Zaxxed, we play oddball group comps and try to have fun. Against the really good DPS Trains of Destro, we have to try and PvE to win as we cannot compete on pure kills. We win SCs 500 to 440ish, with 13 kills versus their 33 kills. So who really won? The renown rewards they get are 3x ours, but we get tokens for gear, etc.
So unless you want to beat that META 6-man team, there is no external incentive that will lure you into that pain and suffering.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:58 pm
by Manatikik
My friends coming back
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:13 pm
by Dankmeme
Ramasee wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:36 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:08 pm
wargrimnir wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:47 pm
This carries intrinsic issues.
Pug scen there's a lot of kills and deaths going around. There's a lot more RP being generated and loot dropping simply by virtue of volume.
6v6 has a few solid engagements, then usually the team with the upper hand is determined and the fighting ends. Or it's a 15 minute stalemate between turtle teams. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not going to see the 30+ kills in a 6v6 for each side that you might get out of a particularly deadly pug-brawl. Both 6v6 scens grant 50% more emblems and loot.
We can't give the losing team better rewards than a pug brawl if they get stomped and end up with 1-2 kills (or 0!). If there's rewards simply for queueing then we run the issue of having to drop hammers on people that afk or don't take a match seriously and queue with useless garbage just to get their loser rewards. Giving people stuff for failure is a fast way to dilute the pool of competition, so we're going to need a different direction on that thought.
Then I honestly can't think of another means of incentivising groups to keep trying - even if they lose. I feel if groups had more incentives to keep trying, they would be more inclined.
Of course, the issues that you mentioned, e.g. potential AFKers that would necessitate more GM involvement, are very valid.
A loss in 6v6 should carry more benefit than a loss in pug roflstomp. But not more than winning. Also with varied/added cool stuff benefits being introduced that aren't power related, a small benefit towards obtaining those even if you got stomped would be something.
People do not like to get zero reward for putting in effort and getting beaten. Of course those that put the time to have better skill should be more rewarded for actually winning.
A loss in a 6v6 shows were the weaknesses of a group lie and where to improve.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:27 pm
by richard1032
I have not read the stream of posts but i will give my opinion.
It’s rare in 6v6 that you have 6 good players with balanced gear/renown on both sides. Usually a weak link will be found and then battered over and over. In EC this is not an issue, if it turns out to be an epic fight then it will go on for a good time but if one side gets battered it is over really fast. In Isha it pretty much always ends up being a 10 - 15 pain for one side and boring imo. If it were my choice I would never q isha unless we had our best 6 on (which never happens) but I am always outvoted so we usually do.
Littlebomber
Fandanfinlyman
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:40 pm
by drmordread
I do not see any benefit to put together 6 players who have never played together before and take on a 6 man meta grp that plays together every night, and has optimized their play to each other.
Basically it just means more fun for the long term 6 man, and 0 fun for the new 6 man.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 pm
by erez1985
agreed at the moment premade in sc make it toxic i think game should only allow premade's in rvr and make game with open comms so if u in pug and have a mic u can jam with people.
At the moment its destro premades that are taking fun out of game with same groups smashing pugs
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:10 pm
by peterthepan3
erez1985 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 pm
agreed at the moment premade in sc make it toxic i think game should only allow premade's in rvr and make game with open comms so if u in pug and have a mic u can jam with people.
At the moment its destro premades that are taking fun out of game with same groups smashing pugs
Another completely irrelevant post to the topic at hand, i.e. what would make people queue Isha/EC.
Keep comments relevant to the topic at hand, please.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:39 pm
by Kabuterimonga
So after reading some of the replies the reasons not to go for 6v6 is:
-Will get farmed by stablished organized meta premades (due to low player base) Since there is no Ranking / MMR system, new teams will be mismatched by superior teams, hence it's feeding the enemy and making them stronger each day.
-Class unbalanced with regard to 1v1 classes out performing others.
-Main focus of Warhammer is not small scale combat.
-Scenarios is a means to an end, gear. Wich often times is not useful for some Careers spec.
-Toxicity and frustation expressed by certain players.
-Time, dedication skill level, gear, RR and perseverance to keep 6 players coordinated on comms.
-Making RvR less active.
-And my personal one is by joining an Elite premade you become an employee working for the Main guy to get killing blows.
Re: What would it take: Queue for 6v6
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:57 am
by orillah
Same realm vs realm fights. Pretty sure this guys do not really care what realm winning as long as they do
. Actually will reduce time shifting disbalance between factions.