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AM/Shaman and General Balance.

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Telen
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#91 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:37 pm

Arteker616 wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:28 am the gobo run or die agaisnt a am due to the fact he cannot cleanse dots and ap drain, am does .
Option 1
Change AM cleanse type to Hex/Curse then so neither can cleanse each other. WP would then need to cleanse Ailment/Hex instead. See how Shamans like to go against the main gcleanse class like AM does with dok. Sham really are better off going against AM cleanse than WP. I'll argue against it as I dont want to go against the main gcleanse classes on both.
Option 2
Change the dot type of Shaman so AM cant cleanse them but then again you would be cleansed by WP gcleanse.
Option 3
Change the dot type of AM so shaman can cleanse them. Problem there is AM then cant be cleansed by DoK gcleanse, buff for AM, or Zealot which already cant cleanse the sw spammable hd add another hd they cant cleanse and thats a big kick in the balls for zealot.
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Arteker616
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#92 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Telen wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:37 pm
Arteker616 wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:28 am the gobo run or die agaisnt a am due to the fact he cannot cleanse dots and ap drain, am does .
Option 1
Change AM cleanse type to Hex/Curse then so neither can cleanse each other. WP would then need to cleanse Ailment/Hex instead. See how Shamans like to go against the main gcleanse class like AM does with dok. Sham really are better off going against AM cleanse than WP. I'll argue against it as I dont want to go against the main gcleanse classes on both.
Option 2
Change the dot type of Shaman so AM cant cleanse them but then again you would be cleansed by WP gcleanse.
Option 3
Change the dot type of AM so shaman can cleanse them. Problem there is AM then cant be cleansed by DoK gcleanse, buff for AM, or Zealot which already cant cleanse the sw spammable hd add another hd they cant cleanse and thats a big kick in the balls for zealot.
you dont understand how shamans work , dont you?. shaman dont rely on dots to do his job , he do use dmg rotation similar to the sorc, unlike am wich rely on fast heavy hittin dots.

This isnt a complain about ams but trying to make understand people than both character are very different on the dps role . people is trying to clone em , because on general on 1vs1 situation the am is pherhaps the strongest chracter on game .there was a big **** reason ams dissapeared on mass after the detaunt dot mechanic changes while gobo dps numbers never lowered. it was a big kick on the jowls to the am.

Average bad shaman dps play gobos like they would do with am and they fail hard , gobos rely on hittin and kitin, ams stand still heal detaunt and slow kills you .

i wish people could find that old mins long duel btw rioz and arnagob . it was so highlight than people on the end understand ams won agaisnt goblins just based on his ap drain.

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Telen
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#93 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:25 am

On live I agree that a 2 dot difference and AM lacking burst without a channel reduction tactic then the classes were played differently. Here though they are very similar. A single dot doesnt differentiate the playstyles much. Ams never killed through dots alone and dont here, every class is a burst class, dots are just the foundation. Main difference is Shaman want to get the toughness debuff on when they can which means 2s stationary when possible.

RoR moved the classes much closer.

If youre talking about 1v1 then the Shaman shouldnt bother engaging an AM just as AM will ignore a dok with a chalice.
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Wosh
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#94 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:19 am

peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:54 pm
ndnuzik88 wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:46 pm You guys can keep telling yourself that order are weak and keep buffing one side and nerf another. Then someday there will be no destro left for you to play with. Dont quote me, I wont visit this topic anymore.
If you can not grasp why certain changes are made, and instead prefer to attribute said changes with some sort of realm bias on the team's behalf, then there is no point in trying to persuade you. I literally just explained to you why the Rifleman engineer ability was given (it can always be removed if deemed necessary), but I suppose its easier to keep your head in the sand as seems to be the go-to reaction.
I love your condescending tone staff!

Wosh
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#95 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:26 am

peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:56 pm
Jimsey0000 wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:08 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:45 pm I am struggling to understand how a full tanky Chosen (full tough/resi/hp regen/block/D+D) is dying to 1 DPS AM in so fast a time, when a defensive Magus can outlive DPS AM indefinitely.

Also: 4k armor isn't a huge deal whatsoever on a SNB tank. Engineer can armor debuff + demolishing strike you down to circa 1.5k values, then factor in APR (25% pen) and WS = you will be pretty squishy for the duration of APR and DS. You need much higher levels of armor.

(Bear in mind that Sorc/BW/Magus can hit tanks consistently hard).
4k armor is alot for a destro tank, not much for an order tank, but none of this really has anything to do with engineers. the logical thing to do would be to stop buffing engineers, not buff them and say "hey mister RR71 tank, stack more armor, so you can last 3 seoncds against an RDPS class that was originally a utility DPS class, but we want to keep the utility while buffing their damage because reasons"
Ahh...so you're one of those people who genuinely believe Engineer is utility first, dps second, and that an Engineer should never actually be able to fulfill the role of DPS because of the supposed utility they bring that would justify this position.

4k is low armor for a tank.
The condescending tone strikes again!

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peterthepan3
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#96 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:31 am

Wosh wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:26 am
peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:56 pm
Jimsey0000 wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:08 pm

4k armor is alot for a destro tank, not much for an order tank, but none of this really has anything to do with engineers. the logical thing to do would be to stop buffing engineers, not buff them and say "hey mister RR71 tank, stack more armor, so you can last 3 seoncds against an RDPS class that was originally a utility DPS class, but we want to keep the utility while buffing their damage because reasons"
Ahh...so you're one of those people who genuinely believe Engineer is utility first, dps second, and that an Engineer should never actually be able to fulfill the role of DPS because of the supposed utility they bring that would justify this position.

4k is low armor for a tank.
The condescending tone strikes again!
Facts don't care about feelings (4k armor is low), and if I come across sarcastic in my posts it is only because I think some sarcasm is warranted, here and there.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sulorie
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#97 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:54 am

It is not easy to hit the right tone, when talking to people, who lack basic game knowledge.
Dying is no option.

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