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AM/Shaman and General Balance.

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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bryo1er
Posts: 5

AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#1 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:10 pm

hello ,

1st of all i dont post much as u guys can see. but atm some serious issues are been happening for a while and i think i hold my tongue long enough.
before i go any further , i want to say THANK YOU to all of those who are working on making this game happening, all of us should be very great full.so thank you all of you.

now, i know this may get me ban but heck, since no destro is talking and only order is whining on forums ill give it a go.

The am and sham dmg need to be fixed , why in the world a healer archetype could do so much dps just boggles me.the heal specced healers arent that good compared to the hybrid counterparts. the disrupt change didn't helped at all for those like me who are just healers, and if u want to talk about dok i know some of them who are really angry at the way their heal goes out for now and their cost, their chalice doesn't work great i don't know much about its mechanics, Elvasoul could tell us more, but apparently its really bad the way its working atm,i am talking heal specced ofc.

that engie 25% armor penetration buff they get from tactic or whatever wasn't needed at all. they do way enough dps as it was before.

That BW bomb wb they do need to be reworked as well.

Now all of you order can whine back at me ancomplaint i dont really care anymore, all i see is the hardcore destro leaving or playing less and less because of the way things are.

i dont talk often but enough is enough

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Wuhh
Posts: 213

Re: needed fixes......................

Post#2 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:13 pm

good points well made

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DanielWinner
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#3 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:20 pm

The thread has being renamed.

Due to bad structure and probably poor game knowledge, I doubt, that any of these complaints could have any effect but go for it, boy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#4 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:32 pm

bryo1er wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:10 pm The am and sham dmg need to be fixed , why in the world a healer archetype could do so much dps just boggles me.the heal specced healers arent that good compared to the hybrid counterparts.
Heal spec shaman and archmage work very well. I personally I enjoy heal spec very much on this server, opposed to live.
Only the common issues with CC being depended on your intel stat make them a bit unreliable, when it comes to CC. I would like to see some improvements on that aspect.
Any dd class does more dps than both. The damage is only great on debuffed solo players, who have no resist buffs and/or healing.
Dying is no option.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#5 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:34 pm

bryo1er wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:10 pm
now, i know this may get me ban but heck, since no destro is talking and only order is whining on forums ill give it a go.

...why would you get a ban?
The am and sham dmg need to be fixed , why in the world a healer archetype could do so much dps just boggles me.the heal specced healers arent that good compared to the hybrid counterparts. the disrupt change didn't helped at all for those like me who are just healers, and if u want to talk about dok i know some of them who are really angry at the way their heal goes out for now and their cost, their chalice doesn't work great i don't know much about its mechanics, Elvasoul could tell us more, but apparently its really bad the way its working atm,i am talking heal specced ofc.
Re DOK:That is the entire mechanic of the class. You are not supposed to be able to cast indefinitely away from the frontline. DOKs I have been playing with/against have expressed no such concerns, so I would say that this is an entirely anecdotal/subjective experience. Saying 'their chalice doesn't work great' isn't telling us anything: we need proof that this is the case.

Re DPS healers: because it is a DPS spec - that is why they do DPS. A DPS AM/Shaman will never be able to fill in as a healer in a group/wb if they are specced offensively, and even then only the exceptionally played ones (of which there are maybe a handful) can actually fill in as a DPS. Heal spec'd healers not being 'as good compared to hybrid counterparts' is hyperbole, frankly. They are not as good at doing what? Hybrids, by their definition, are jack-of-all-trades and do not excel in any one department over a pure healer, or pure DPS.

If I were to hazard a guess I would say that you are talking about dps am/shaman in pug environments (where they thrive)?
that engie 25% armor penetration buff they get from tactic or whatever wasn't needed at all. they do way enough dps as it was before.
It's from an ability in Rifleman. 13-pts. It actually is needed because Rifleman Engi (along with SW and SH) suffer greatly against targets with high levels of armor. The ability itself is balanced in that it actually doesn't really do anything against squishy targets, but helps quite considerably against armor stacking healers/tanks/Medium armor, i.e. targets Rifleman Engineer was struggling against.

Saying 'they do way enough dps as it was before' is, again, offering us nothing.

That BW bomb wb they do need to be reworked as well.
We have mentioned several times that the intent is to eventually re-revert the BW M2 (I know...I'm sorry) when Order have other WB viable classes. It is a temporary measure that was done to help alleviate some of the concerns expressed by Order WB players.

Now all of you order can whine back at me ancomplaint i dont really care anymore, all i see is the hardcore destro leaving or playing less and less because of the way things are.

i dont talk often but enough is enough
On the contrary: I see all of the 'hardcore' guilds on Destro because of how head and shoulders it has been above Order recently.

Destro has much better WB options than Order does. I really struggle to understand how anyone can suggest otherwise.

Also...In regards to your claims about dps healers doing too much damage, engineers doing too much damage, and dok healers being underpowered: if you believe any class to be overperforming/underperforming, we would love to hear why, but please provide thorough evidence to back such claims next time because hyperbole does not help anyone (and it's actually tiring to have to read through such claims that - 9 times out of 10 - have nothing to back them up).
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kkprfx
Posts: 175

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#6 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:50 pm

Could you talk about the AM/SH balance issue and not about DOK/BW/your 3 year olds bed time story? And give me 2 understandable sentences in a row please. Couldn't understand a single word.

ggwp l2p scrub cry me a river
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Telen
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Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#7 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:24 pm

In War time to kill is very low compared to alot of other mmos that have either large healthpools or low dps and low heals. So burst and large mitigation coupled with reliable heals are king. Overheal is highly prevalent in War with very little drawback.

This leads to any dd spec having to have a good level of dps to function, the includes dps healers. Pressure is less effective as it allows time. Healers can easily react, tanks can swap guards or just detaunt. There are many ways to counter damage very quickly because ttk is so low. Dots classes were limited by this games design so they have to do decent damage to allow those classes to reach adequate levels of dps. So in smallscale when you lack heals or guard they are very effective because it take into account that healers will have reacted or a mitigation method has been used. If none of this is present and you dont need damage within a window that dot damage becomes effective. Pug being the prime place.
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bryo1er
Posts: 5

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#8 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:47 pm

DanielWinner wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:20 pm The thread has being renamed.

Due to bad structure and probably poor game knowledge, I doubt, that any of these complaints could have any effect but go for it, boy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
lol poorly game knowledge that why destro dont post in here,all we do is get bashed , also we don't all have English has 1st language its my 3rd one actually , so yeah grammar police much

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#9 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:49 pm

bryo1er wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:47 pm
DanielWinner wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:20 pm The thread has being renamed.

Due to bad structure and probably poor game knowledge, I doubt, that any of these complaints could have any effect but go for it, boy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
lol poorly game knowledge that why destro dont post in here,all we do is get bashed , also we don't all have English has 1st language its my 3rd one actually , so yeah grammar police much
You get called out for having no, at best poor arguments, in your OP.
Dying is no option.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: AM/Shaman and General Balance.

Post#10 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:21 pm

bryo1er wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:47 pm
DanielWinner wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:20 pm The thread has being renamed.

Due to bad structure and probably poor game knowledge, I doubt, that any of these complaints could have any effect but go for it, boy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
lol poorly game knowledge that why destro dont post in here,all we do is get bashed , also we don't all have English has 1st language its my 3rd one actually , so yeah grammar police much
Being destro has nothing to do with it. Lots of the people replying probably play destro. They probably doubted your lack of game knowledge because some of the stuff you said isnt accurate. Like the Engineer armor pen being a tactic instead of an ability.

Also some of the things you said about DoKs are exactly the same on a WP.

I dont think anyone is worried about your grammar so much, but lots of your post are just hard to understand. It's one thing if you have poor grammar, but your point still comes across. Some of your OP was hard to actually understand what you are trying to say.

From what I gather your only debatable points are BWs are too strong and Armor piercing rounds are also too strong.

Both are good, but I am not sure they are so strong they elicit the level of complaining you are claiming. I play both order and destruction, more destruction lately.

I guess AM/Shaman or dps healers in general is also something that could actually make an argument for, but your only argument seems to be everything is too good. There isn't much substance to argue with there so the only thing you can do is agree or disagree with it.

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