General idea's about Sc's

[Flavorburst]

This is super anecdotal, but I can't imagine my situation is that much of an outlier based on discussions I have had with other people (if a large number of people have drastically different outcomes, I will obviously feel differently about this):

My sorc is pretty new. I leveled it to 40/~50 about 2 weeks ago, and I am now rr64 (bolstered by the 2x rr event, the keg from the kegs end event, and a constant 25% rr potion running).

Last night I completed full vanq on it with 4 pieces of Gen (couple of duplicate chest pieces, shoulders, and gen cloak... maybe even a belt).

Comparatively, I have 520 Opp emblems, and around 140 conq emblems (about 75% of all my conq emblems came from spamming scs to level from 31-40, as I was pretty close to rr50 when I hit 40, thus was getting Opp fairly early on).

Even if I won all of those and was getting 6 emblems a pop (which I most certainly was not), that's still about 16 hours spent (600 tokens / 6 per game * 10 min per game / 60 min per hour = 16.666 REPEATING, OF COURSE) to get roughly enough emblems to buy boots and a belt, which are the 2 cheapest pieces you can buy.

This means that in the perfect world where you win every scenario (all 428 of them) and they are on average 10 mins, and they all pop instantly back to back, it would take you almost 72 straight hours to farm a set.

Add in the 40/45 SC weapon and you are nearly doubling that. Now, you may say "BUT THERE IS NO ORVR WEAPON, SO IT ISN'T FAIR TO CALCULATE THAT INTO TIME SPENT!", which is why I added/mentioned the Gen pieces earlier, which seem comparable to SC weapon as far as power gained during time spent on 2 (relatively) separate activities is concerned. Not to mention Sub weapons/gear a) drops like candy, b) is able to be traded to an NPC to get what you want c) is usually comparable to the 40sc weapon/gutslime/whatever.

So, we are talking about ~140 hours under PERFECT conditions to gain everything you can out of SCs.

We all know that a 100% winrate is not anywhere close to reality. A 50% winrate is much more reasonable, but if we do that, then we are now basically doubling our time spent in SCs. We are now at ~280 hours spent.

Is Wargrimnir's estimation of how long it takes to get decked in oRvR accurate and is the amount of time spent to reach that goal reasonable? I think so.

However, I don't see why defensive/off-meta (off-meta is probably a strong term here, but let's work under the framework that healer ought to heal, tanks ought to tank, etc) gear should take almost 3x as long to obtain.

This is exacerbated by the tier below the "best" tier SC gear taking just as much time to obtain as the "best" set, while you can trade one vanq in for 5 conq (meaning you can have a full set of conq with, what? ~200 vanq tokens?). Sure, you can buy gloves and boots for Dom, but a) those are 2 of the cheapest pieces (outside of belt), b) if time=money, then money=time. That money needs to come from somewhere, and the 150-200g it takes to purchase those 2 pieces costs a few solid hours of farming, c) the set costs ~1/4 more tokens to obtain than it's counterpart, which diminishes the impact of being able to buy 2 pieces.

I just don't see how SC gear is a reasonable grind from my perspective, but perhaps someone can pick apart my post and help me (and probably a multitude of other people) understand.

[GoshDarn]

This is super anecdotal, but I can't imagine my situation is that much of an outlier based on discussions I have had with other people (if a large number of people have drastically different outcomes, I will obviously feel differently about this):

My sorc is pretty new. I leveled it to 40/~50 about 2 weeks ago, and I am now rr64 (bolstered by the 2x rr event, the keg from the kegs end event, and a constant 25% rr potion running).

Last night I completed full vanq on it with 4 pieces of Gen (couple of duplicate chest pieces, shoulders, and gen cloak... maybe even a belt).

Comparatively, I have 520 Opp emblems, and around 140 conq emblems (about 75% of all my conq emblems came from spamming scs to level from 31-40, as I was pretty close to rr50 when I hit 40, thus was getting Opp fairly early on).

Even if I won all of those and was getting 6 emblems a pop (which I most certainly was not), that's still about 16 hours spent (600 tokens / 6 per game * 10 min per game / 60 min per hour = 16.666 REPEATING, OF COURSE) to get roughly enough emblems to buy boots and a belt, which are the 2 cheapest pieces you can buy.

This means that in the perfect world where you win every scenario (all 428 of them) and they are on average 10 mins, and they all pop instantly back to back, it would take you almost 72 straight hours to farm a set.

Add in the 40/45 SC weapon and you are nearly doubling that. Now, you may say "BUT THERE IS NO ORVR WEAPON, SO IT ISN'T FAIR TO CALCULATE THAT INTO TIME SPENT!", which is why I added/mentioned the Gen pieces earlier, which seem comparable to SC weapon as far as power gained during time spent on 2 (relatively) separate activities is concerned. Not to mention Sub weapons/gear a) drops like candy, b) is able to be traded to an NPC to get what you want c) is usually comparable to the 40sc weapon/gutslime/whatever.

So, we are talking about ~140 hours under PERFECT conditions to gain everything you can out of SCs.

We all know that a 100% winrate is not anywhere close to reality. A 50% winrate is much more reasonable, but if we do that, then we are now basically doubling our time spent in SCs. We are now at ~280 hours spent.

Is Wargrimnir's estimation of how long it takes to get decked in oRvR accurate and is the amount of time spent to reach that goal reasonable? I think so.

However, I don't see why defensive/off-meta (off-meta is probably a strong term here, but let's work under the framework that healer ought to heal, tanks ought to tank, etc) gear should take almost 3x as long to obtain.

This is exacerbated by the tier below the "best" tier SC gear taking just as much time to obtain as the "best" set, while you can trade one vanq in for 5 conq (meaning you can have a full set of conq with, what? ~200 vanq tokens?). Sure, you can buy gloves and belt for Dom, but a) those are 2 of the cheapest pieces (outside of belt), b) if time=money, then money=time. That money needs to come from somewhere, and the 150-200g it takes to purchase those 2 pieces costs a few solid hours of farming, c) the set costs ~1/4 more tokens to obtain than it's counterpart, which diminishes the impact of being able to buy 2 pieces.

I just don't see how SC gear is a reasonable grind from my perspective, but perhaps someone can pick apart my post and help me (and probably a multitude of other people) understand.

Yea my Sorc got full Vanq in about 5 days, not including the 2 week break I took from the game. I was gana do a Dom set but it would certainly take years, let alone Oppressor Lol. A solo sorc/Def build was the idea, base crit damage & survivability from there but seeing as I got Vanq so fast & that Vanq is about exactly as good as Conq.. You can literally skip every set and just farm Vanq medallions & revert them into conq & have an equal set as Vanq for Sorc.

If you enjoy Orvr in this game, enjoy your gunbad farming because that is the new good good.. You were right when you said Vanq is definitely not best in slot, I was wrong to disagree with you. Vanq/Sent is better for sure especially after you now lose 2% more crit, & Vanq has a weird useless AP buff in 2 pieces of the gear AND on the bonuses.

So if you don't want to go farm Gunbad for 10 years straight because you hate PVE, rough cookies. There is probably a good reason for why you must farm extreme amounts for Oppressor type SC gear in comparison to any other set, even gunbad. They stopped responding to my posts after I harshly criticized gear, so lets see how this one goes for you if they even respond.

[Reesh]

Spoiler:

This is super anecdotal, but I can't imagine my situation is that much of an outlier based on discussions I have had with other people (if a large number of people have drastically different outcomes, I will obviously feel differently about this):

My sorc is pretty new. I leveled it to 40/~50 about 2 weeks ago, and I am now rr64 (bolstered by the 2x rr event, the keg from the kegs end event, and a constant 25% rr potion running).

Last night I completed full vanq on it with 4 pieces of Gen (couple of duplicate chest pieces, shoulders, and gen cloak... maybe even a belt).

Comparatively, I have 520 Opp emblems, and around 140 conq emblems (about 75% of all my conq emblems came from spamming scs to level from 31-40, as I was pretty close to rr50 when I hit 40, thus was getting Opp fairly early on).

Even if I won all of those and was getting 6 emblems a pop (which I most certainly was not), that's still about 16 hours spent (600 tokens / 6 per game * 10 min per game / 60 min per hour = 16.666 REPEATING, OF COURSE) to get roughly enough emblems to buy boots and a belt, which are the 2 cheapest pieces you can buy.

This means that in the perfect world where you win every scenario (all 428 of them) and they are on average 10 mins, and they all pop instantly back to back, it would take you almost 72 straight hours to farm a set.

Add in the 40/45 SC weapon and you are nearly doubling that. Now, you may say "BUT THERE IS NO ORVR WEAPON, SO IT ISN'T FAIR TO CALCULATE THAT INTO TIME SPENT!", which is why I added/mentioned the Gen pieces earlier, which seem comparable to SC weapon as far as power gained during time spent on 2 (relatively) separate activities is concerned. Not to mention Sub weapons/gear a) drops like candy, b) is able to be traded to an NPC to get what you want c) is usually comparable to the 40sc weapon/gutslime/whatever.

So, we are talking about ~140 hours under PERFECT conditions to gain everything you can out of SCs.

We all know that a 100% winrate is not anywhere close to reality. A 50% winrate is much more reasonable, but if we do that, then we are now basically doubling our time spent in SCs. We are now at ~280 hours spent.

Is Wargrimnir's estimation of how long it takes to get decked in oRvR accurate and is the amount of time spent to reach that goal reasonable? I think so.

However, I don't see why defensive/off-meta (off-meta is probably a strong term here, but let's work under the framework that healer ought to heal, tanks ought to tank, etc) gear should take almost 3x as long to obtain.

This is exacerbated by the tier below the "best" tier SC gear taking just as much time to obtain as the "best" set, while you can trade one vanq in for 5 conq (meaning you can have a full set of conq with, what? ~200 vanq tokens?). Sure, you can buy gloves and belt for Dom, but a) those are 2 of the cheapest pieces (outside of belt), b) if time=money, then money=time. That money needs to come from somewhere, and the 150-200g it takes to purchase those 2 pieces costs a few solid hours of farming, c) the set costs ~1/4 more tokens to obtain than it's counterpart, which diminishes the impact of being able to buy 2 pieces.

I just don't see how SC gear is a reasonable grind from my perspective, but perhaps someone can pick apart my post and help me (and probably a multitude of other people) understand.

That's a pretty accurate calculation, the progression of emblems feels similar to what you've wrote.
That's why my toons are staying in old gear, as time required to get them is absurdly stupid.

[GodlessCrom]

Yeah its been a bummer grinding dominator on my IB. All my old group have stopped playing, or do mostly orvr/pve (i.e. chat in discord while farming talis) so i am stuck puggin it and dear god, order pug scs are grim.

I did about four hours of orvr one week though and got 2 pieces of conq and my 2h subj hammer, so theres that.

[Nameless]

Put gear aside just make sc more enjoyable and fair.

1 make so u can complete sc quest from quest giver (luccaa explained why that is reasonable)

2 change end game bracket to only 40s (or at least 35-40). By that devs will bring more ppl to orvr (these 31-39 that wont join 40 sc bracket). So big win for wargrim here.

3 bring better matchmaking. Yes that will lower sc pop but will bring better experience for persons involved. That is another huge win for devs cos less sc pop means more ppl doing orvr.

4 bring surrender vote. If all players from winning team and 2/3 from lossing team do .surrender vote let the sc end.

5 make different sc ladders to promote grouping and competitive environment

When devs make scs better may be peter's wet dream for more competition at sc may happens from itself.
Fixing gear grind rate from scs would help but that is not the main problem imo

[GoshDarn]

Despite bad rewards and long grind to get them, people play scenarios anyway and avoid RvR which has much better rewards and it's easier to get. Scenarios don't need the help, time, or attention. You're going to play then anyway because the time commitment is that much lower and RvR has its moments that aren't nearly as efficient in time:fun ratio.

Admittance of the bad rewards and the ridiculously long grind to get them is irrelevant, and unhelpful to the topic at hand, Wargrimnir. I mean this with complete respect, this has been something brought up MANY times by multitudes of players, the reason to queue for SC is, yes, for the gear sets. But, tbh, i find SC's much more fun (when its actually even fights) and saying what you said makes no sense. I mean, people play in ORVR regardless but its nowhere near as hard to get that set. Lowering the costs / increasing SC rewards definitely aren't hard to do compared to some of the things the server team has done (much thanks for this) and is really a sore subject for TONS of players. Like i said, with complete respect, answering inquiries like this is seriously hindering feedback or rather the willingness to provide it when it is swept aside without consideration.

It's not a new topic. It's not a new answer.

RvR is encouraged. It's the aspect of the game that NEEDS a strong population to be successful. Scenarios do not. We're not going to sacrifice the players in RvR to make scenarios even more appealing than they already are.

I am farming Gunbad (PVE) for my Sorc new best in slot gear, although I would love to play RvR where I will be using that gear. Gunbad is encouraged so maybe put a scenario that has Gunbad lairs as SC's and give those Sentinel pieces for rewards.

[Goldenbow100]

Guys, continuing this conversation is moot at this point. We have already heard from the team that this will not ever be looked at because they don't care about the SC aspect of the game. 6 PAGES of players perspective and there isn't a single good reason not to do something to change SC's positively. But, too be fair, 9,999 out of 10,000 player proposals get rejected, so i cant say its the topic at hands fault.

[Ghud]

I cant understand this they dont want to split the rvr plaver pool for sc and give us a new pve dungon ...

whe want only more filter option´s for sc that is all
over 90Hours nonstop Sc !!!! for 1 Item
Is a job for the Man in Grey they representing the Timesavings Bank

[Sulorie]

In many cases you don't want full set anyway and what is wrong with playing sc for 1 month with 2-3h a day to get full endgame set? Remember, no full set required for most builds.
Nobody said, that sc players are 2nd class or are ignored. There is just no further inventive needed to make people queue for sc.

[Ghud]

In many cases you don't want full set anyway and what is wrong with playing sc for 1 month with 2-3h a day to get full endgame set? Remember, no full set required for most builds.
Nobody said, that sc players are 2nd class or are ignored. There is just no further inventive needed to make people queue for sc.

Have u read the first post ??? ist simple maths, if u want play 2-3 hours Sc per day to get the your gear u need a 50% winrate!!!
and u forgot te time between the Scenarios so whe have easy 4-5 hours Sc per day with a 50% winrate!!!

4-5 Hours per day 1 month Only Sc is a full time job and makes no fun even when u have a 50%winrate